Sidemount and "tec" training...

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Patoux01

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G'day mates,

I'm currently in Sydney, and I'm running out of ideas to get into dives that are a bit more challenging than the usual 10m dive we have here. There's quite a few wrecks in NSW that are worth checking out, at least that's what is said. I'm currently looking at Advanced nitrox and Deco procedures. Nothing more!

My thoughts on SM:
- It's great for cave
- It's great for OW
- It's easy for 3 tanks, 4 tanks still very feasible, 5 gets tricky.
- It's **** to go very deep, but then again, so is a twinset. If you're very deep, a rebreather is the only way.


I've tried about all the dive shops around in Sydney, I have yet to find someone that does good, clean SM and that will allow me to take a course where we're "only" carrying up to 4 tanks. All the others reply something like this
Yes it is possible to do the courses on sidemount but unless you have ability issues or are intending on going cavediving in the near future, Sidemount is actually not the otimum rig for the diving. It lacks a level of redundancy that the twinset has and is also less fluid and ergonomic when dealing with multiple deco cylinders ( I teach ADV NTX and DECO with 2 deco cylinders, 50% and 100%)
or
PS .. who taught you what you have done so far. Sidemount emmm that's not a good start.

Is it wrong that I ask if they teach in SM ? Should I put on a twinset where I don't see the need of it? If I need more tanks than I think I can handle around me (without looking like a revolver), then I'd put on a twinset. But before that time comes (ie too deep), I'd rather put on a rebreather than a twinset.
I don't see the point in doing a course that should teach me how to handle deco tanks etc in BM and then switch back to SM and having to learn it on my own again. Am I wrong here?

Any input?
Someone got an adress of a good instructor here that I might have missed?
(I know of steve martin supposedly coming here in january/february, but it's not sure yet if he'll be running courses and if i'll be able to join them)


Edit: By "challenging" I meant "deeper", before I get yelled at for using that word...
 
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I've done Intro Trimix (60m) using sidemount, no biggie. Provided your "Backgas" cylinders aren't hanging below your body line, deco cylinders sit very nicely under them :)

At the end of the day, it's your diving you want to progress, so use the equipment that you will be using for the dives and that you find the most comfortable. As for instructors, I'm only good for naming people in the U.K. although Steve Martin is good port of call if he is about in AUS in the future, get in touch with him :)
 
not sure of any specific instructors out there but here's my thoughts, which go against many of the Edd trained divers that won't put twins on again.

Sidemount for me is a lifestyle choice and a tool. I prefer to dive sidemount in caves, and generally just prefer it in the water. The other side of that is that twinsets are very easy to dive with, especially from boats. They make a lot of things easier as far as getting on and off the boats, and since you don't have to carry them very far, unless you have shoulder problems that make twinsets impossible to safely manipulate the valves, then there is really no reason not to use them in deep ocean diving. I still sidemount my stage and deco bottles, so I will use my nomad for twinsets.

There is no problem using sidemount for deep diving, but for me twinsets are more comfortable at the surface, and are easier to get in and out of both on the surface and on the boat, especially with multiple deco/stage bottles. To each their own, and there are many that have sworn off backmount for good, but for me it still has its place. Three weeks ago I was sidemounting in cave country, tomorrow I'll be diving independent twins for a week assisting with Open Water checkout dives. I could dive sidemount if I wanted, but twins are easier for this application.
 
Patoux01 ... would I be correct in assuming that your profile is not up to date, and that you have more than 25-49 dives worth of experience? If not, then perhaps you're getting the kind of responses you're getting from dive shops because they think perhaps you lack sufficient experience to be thinking about dives that require two deco gasses, and don't want to come right out and say it.

In general, I think the resistance a lot of shops ... not just in your area, but worldwide ... have to sidemount is that they're not familiar with it, and they don't sell the equipment, and therefore it's not "appropriate" to any kind of diving they'd be engaged in. Scuba diving has a history of resistance to innovations ... go back two decades and look at how the industry resisted recreational nitrox. There are still some shops out there that will tell you it's inappropriate for recreational diving, although they are now few and far between.

If you want to learn sidemount, my recommendation is to travel to someplace where it's in common use and take a class from someone who dives sidemount every day. At least that way you'll get the benefit of someone who's had time to experiment with different styles of rig and who will be able to understand and explain some of the drawbacks you might experience and how to deal with them.

I've had my sidemount rig down to about 250 feet on some wreck dives in Lake Superior, and below 200 feet in several other places ... most recently at the Blue Hole in Dahab. It's a lot more difficult when diving off of small boats ... several of our deep dives were doing backrolls off a RIB in somewhat rough conditions ... but it's manageable. Getting back onto those boats can be even more problematic, since unlike a backmount rig you'll be removing your tanks individually and handing them up before removing the rig. Add in deco bottles, or a camera and/or scooter (like we had in Egypt) and you're looking at several minutes getting "undressed" before getting back on the boat. In rough conditions that can be considerably more challenging than in a backmount setup. But it's manageable if you know what you're doing.

Dive boats in general aren't set up with sidemount in mind. Getting into or out of the water can be more difficult. Gates on a dive boat aren't usually made wide enough to accommodate sidemount, and you need to giant stride in sideways. Getting out may be even more of an issue, depending on whether or not you're strong enough to walk up a ladder with your tanks on ... if you need to remove them at the ladder and hand them up first it can be time-consuming in the best of conditions and downright dangerous in rough seas. And then, you're usually dealing with crews who won't understand your equipment and who, in the process of trying to be helpful, may cause even further delays. It took me several dives to convince the boat crew in Egypt that I was better off just doing everything myself, and to not "help" unless I asked for it.

That said, it's all a matter of trade-offs. I dive sidemount because I'm at an age where my flexibility just ain't what it once was (and it was never very good to begin with) and I can no longer do valve drills on backmount tanks ... and if you can't do those smoothly you have no business in backmount doubles. So I chose to go sidemount so I could continue doing the dives I wanted to do ... accepting the challenges as part of the price I'd have to pay for the dives. Like anything else, there are benefits and drawbacks to any equipment choice, and only you can decide whether the benefits are worth the drawbacks. For me, they are ... YMMV.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I haven't done any backmount dives in the caves since my sidemount class, but I think backmount makes life easier off a boat. FWIW, I did my trimix(normoxic) class in SM off of small boats in Mexico.
 
I second Bob's comment about needing to travel to find SM instructors for deco. I'd add, instructors who actively dive SM deco when not teaching as a bonus.

Around here that would be Steve Lewis (Doppler), but closer to you there is Andy Davis of Scubatech Philpines.
 
Sidemount is a gear configuration. Nothing more. It has nothing to do with deep diving or mixed gas diving. I've read the OP a couple of times and still have no idea what any of it means. The dive shop responses seem correct to me. The idea of sidemount is to get through small holes. The fad for using it in open water diving is just a fad, it will pass I'm sure. The equipment manufacturers see a good opportunity to sell loads of pointless expensive (often badly designed) gear to people that will dive it twice and eBay it. That's why it's "flavour of the month" at so many dive shops, plus you can sell yet another badge to the badge collector folk.
 
I've done all my tech training in SM. No problems with 2 deco gases, down to 200'. It can be a little challenging getting off the boat, but getting on is a breeze . I put a line out and start hanging cylinders at my 20' stop. Then get out of the water with no cylinders. The cylinders are light to pull up to the surface and pull in from the line. Some put there cylinders on a line to start and jump in and hook up. But I have to admit, trying to be a well rounded diver, I'm working on my twinset skills. I plan to dive that this year, then decide on which tool for the environment. But I can say I love SM, BM not so much. I'll see if that changes with time, but I don't think so.
 
The dive shop responses seem correct to me.

Would you care to elaborate on the point about the lack of redundancy?

The idea of sidemount is to get through small holes. The fad for using it in open water diving is just a fad, it will pass I'm sure. The equipment manufacturers see a good opportunity to sell loads of pointless expensive (often badly designed) gear to people that will dive it twice and eBay it. That's why it's "flavour of the month" at so many dive shops, plus you can sell yet another badge to the badge collector folk.

Many people do not feel the need to rationalize the desire to dive a particular gear configuration, just as we do not feel the need to rationalize marrying a particular woman.
 
I did 4 dives, as part of class, in back mounted doubles. I then did 4 dives, as part of class, side mounting two tanks. I chose sidemount. I sidemount in open water for two reasons as follows: 1. Solo dives and 2. Deco dives. Otherwise, I revert back to back plate and wing. For me, at least, its not a fad and I have no plans to Ebay my sidemount rig. To the OP: Its true I found entry and exit from a boat to be more of a challenge than my backmount class mates but it was doable. I found deco tanks in sidemount to be no problem at all although I should acknowledge I've only used one deco tank so far as I am only PADI Tec 40 certified at the moment. If you want to do this, then find an instructor whose up for it and forget the rest...especially the one who told you back mounted doubles have superior redundancy to side mount....just my two PSI of course....
 
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