Razor sidemount system and training options

[darrenlowjq]

I'm interested in learning more about sidemount and am thinking of picking up the Razor. I have 3 questions.

1. Does the complete razor set include the tank rigging? I'm thinking there is a similar component to stage rigging which is attached to the tank, but I don't see that component included in the list of items on the go sidemount online store. Pardon me if there is no need for something like that with the way the Razor is meant to be used.

2. Do you sidemount veterans recommend the use of the 90 degree adapter? I'm wondering what's the failure probability like on these things. Does it contribute significantly to additional comfort?

3. I'm interested to learn the Bogarthian way since I'm getting a Razor. I'm currently based in Atlanta for the next few months and I'm wondering if it's worth it to head out to Mexico to learn from Steve, because Edd Sorenson is just a few hours drive away from me. Does the style they teach differ significantly? Does Edd entertain students who show up with a Razor?

 

[gearhound]

If you want to learn the Bogarthian way, go to Bogaerts or one of the GoSidemount instructors.

 

[darrenlowjq]

Well, maybe I should correct myself, I THINK I'm interested in learning the Bogarthian way, but not 100% certain. Just wondering if anybody could enlighten me as to what the differences are between the style Steve teaches vs Edd.

 

[rjack321]

Edd doesn't really like the razor, not sure if he is still willing to teach people in them or not. I had one and was very disappointed in its performance for FL steel tank cave diving. The razor is really intended for Mexican wetsuit plus AL80 diving. In a drysuit in FL its not in its element.

If you are planning on diving in FL (mostly) go to Edd for a Hollis or a halcyon contour.
If you are planning on diving in MX (mostly) go to MX and use one of the gosidemount instructors for the Razor.

 

[darrenlowjq]

I'm in the US just until I'm done with my graduate degree and will be headed back to Asia soon. Highly unlikely that I'll see any steel tanks where I come from. Out of curiousity though, what makes the Razor a poor fit for diving steels?

 

[Patoux01]

The same thing that makes a stealth a poor fit for steel: people not knowing how to use them.
Now that the fight on steel or not steel is on...

Go with whatever you want and find a proper instructor. Edd uses mainly sms100? Well take a 100 and train with him. Or take a razor and train somewhere else. You can also learn by yourself, although a bit harder.

To try to answer your questions:
1) I don't think so, but that's just a camband and a boltsnap, nothing too fancy.
2) I use an elbow, I wasn't completely convinced either (failure point) BUT it allows for easy regulators discrimination, which is quite important as well. It also makes the routing a bit cleaner.
3) Aren't there any other razor instructors?

Cheers

 

[darrenlowjq]

@patoux: I was thinking since I was in this part of the world that I should take the opportunity to train with the original designer of the equipment, but I'll see how it goes. I know of at least 1 razor instructor based in Singapore, where I come from, so I have the option of learning back home too. Seems like most of the razor instructors listed on their page are based out of Mexico.

 

[rjack321]

Razor a poor fit for diving steels?

1) they hang down like bricks. small steels (like lp85s) can ride ok, the big ones always seem to hang below the plane of your belly (unless that hangs down lol)
2) steels hold a lot of gas, the razor wing will ballon up into a giant pillow on your butt supporting all that gas (unless you are underweighted)

If you are going to be diving warm water caves with al80s go ahead and get a razor, but don't go to Edd to get training.

 

[gearhound]

Not that it matters to your needs, but you can easily dive steels with the Razor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0g8Hw2QaHU
If you have the opportunity, go directly to source for training. The quality of training will be much higher. Just be aware that Bogaerts books up quite quickly. If he doesn't get back to you right away, email Natalie at nat@gosidemount.com. She'll be able to get you sorted out.

 

[victorzamora]

Edd isn't who I'd go to for Razor training. I'd go to Edd for SMS75/Halcyon Contour/SMS100/Hog SM training. I'd go to him for Sidemount training. I'm a huge fan of Edd....I'll put that right out there. I think he's one of the best instructors out there, period. Probably THE best for sidemount. Michal Turek (his head instructor) is fantastic as well. I like his teaching method and style. If you take his Sidemount course, you'll know what you need to know to make ANY sidemount rig work. Period. If you take someone else's class, you'll learn (at best) how to make THEIR sidemount rig work. Having dove with Edd and multiple Stealth/Razor instructors, I feel very confident stating that outright.

gearhound: If you don't think those tanks are too low, you should probably consider further training. Also, those are the ONE type of tanks that are almost an exception outside of Europe. The buoyant LP85s. The heavy LP85s won't work. The heavy 104s/108s won't work. Stages with those 85s will barely work (and not well). The razor does poorly with MOST steel tanks because it wasn't designed that way. Its entire geometry is built on the lightweight AL80s. It does a GREAT job of AL80s (almost as good as the Stealth). It simply doesn't do MOST steels well. The wing will come off of your back and turn into a gigantic beach ball. I've dove with a guy diving Worthington LP85s (not very heavy tanks) in a Razor. This guy was Steve-trained in his Razor. I could fit my fist between his back and his wing. He's completely stopped diving his Razor in favor of his SMS100....even in Abaco/Mexico/Dominican caves.

---------- Post added March 4th, 2015 at 04:38 PM ----------

get a razor, but don't go to Edd to get training.

One thing I'll say here is that with Edd's academic training, his in-water skills training, and fifteen minutes worth of YouTube videos and a few dives worth of tweaking....you can EASILY dive the Razor super well with Edd's training. His in-water skills are VERY demanding. You actually learn what it feels like to have everything "just right" and can easily transfer that to other rigs. I made a custom Razor-style harness for single-tank AL80 diving in a shorty in the Caribbean. EASY to set up. Would've been a pain without Edd's knowledge transfer....and I didn't even take his SM class (Did Cavern->Full+Deco with Michal, Apprentice with Edd...learned a ton).