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It seems more like a pissing match, in my opinion.
I mean a padi dive shop issue'ing a c-card with little regard to who actually taught these people who are refering them. To Wreck chick, it isn't you right to make a student to choose to accept the difference in train agencies. It is the store job to make sure that the student is good enough to be a diver and send that paper work back.
Why can't all these agencies quit this pissing match and for one just realize that people diving is the goal. No more stealing students and issues c-cards that clearly should be issued by the instructor who taught the most.
In the end, might as well beat my head against a wall on this one as padi people will say one thing and everyone else will say another thing.
A couple things, first, it's not me that makes the student do their dives with me or my shop, that's the student's decision. Second, the training agency I teach for is the one who tells me what I can and cannot do with regard to non-PADI referrals and their stance is clearly outlined in my instructor manual. Third, my shop does not in any way tell me who I should or should not certify, that decision is mine and mine alone. The shop signs nothing. It is my signature and my liability from start to finish. The only time that the shop would be held liable for negligence if if they knew I wasn't performing to standards and made no effort to stop me or encouraged me to continue practices that blatantly broke standards. Lastly, it's not "PADI people" that say anything. I am following standards that are handed down from PADI proper. I don't make these decisions, I am informing the less informed what I am bound by based on my training agencies decisions.
As far as the UR program, it is up to the referring instructor to set up the OW dives with an instructor. That part is clearly outlined in the program. If a student chooses to seek an instructor on their own or if the referring instructor fails to establish a relationship with an instructor that will be receiving the student, that is breaking standards of the URP.
"Sticking with a moron will only subject you to a bucketful of ad hockery when they finally discover that they have issues and now you're both in the stank." - Doc Intrepid
Thank you for all the information. In the future I will be more involved with communicating with the referring shop . The goal is to get people into diving and the last thing I want is to the student in any kind of agency wars.
A couple things, first, it's not me that makes the student do their dives with me or my shop, that's the student's decision. Second, the training agency I teach for is the one who tells me what I can and cannot do with regard to non-PADI referrals and their stance is clearly outlined in my instructor manual. Third, my shop does not in any way tell me who I should or should not certify, that decision is mine and mine alone. The shop signs nothing. It is my signature and my liability from start to finish. The only time that the shop would be held liable for negligence if if they knew I wasn't performing to standards and made no effort to stop me or encouraged me to continue practices that blatantly broke standards. Lastly, it's not "PADI people" that say anything. I am following standards that are handed down from PADI proper. I don't make these decisions, I am informing the less informed what I am bound by based on my training agencies decisions.
As far as the UR program, it is up to the referring instructor to set up the OW dives with an instructor. That part is clearly outlined in the program. If a student chooses to seek an instructor on their own or if the referring instructor fails to establish a relationship with an instructor that will be receiving the student, that is breaking standards of the URP.
R
So the shop you work for doesn't provide any liability coverage? Wow!
As for you above comment. That is the number one problem in this industry, to many people not communicating. Your comment, as I am reading it, seems very defensive to a common problem for a lot of dive shops who do send universal referals down to vacation areas.
Oh well, **** happens and people still need to get people out diving!
A basic question that seems to be ignored is "WHO IS DECIDING THAT THE DIVER HAS THE SKILLS NEEDED TO BE CERTIFIED?"
To me, it seems that the instructor that did the final OW checkout is that person. Furthermore, it seems pretty clear that instructor doing the OW dives and final checkout is going to be doing it per HIS certifying agency rather than trying to guess as to what the standards are for some other agency.
Put all of that together, it is isn't shocking that a universal referral student that completes his certification with a PADI instructor gets a PADI cert card.
If you are not a Universal Referral Instructor, you simply do not accept Universal Referrals. It's pretty simple. By accepting a Universal Referral, you've agreed to play by Universal Referral rules. If you strongly disagree with their rules, don't accept the referrals. It's not ethical to accept the referrals and then play by your own rules.
BTW, I disagree with your basic concept that, the instructor that did the final OW checkout is the person who should decide if the student should be certified.
__________________
“'It’s the Instructor not the Agency' is a saying promulgated by the inadequate
to cover their shortcomings." - Thalassamania
"Walter....neither you nor I are very likeable anyway.." - Ana
BTW, I disagree with your basic concept that, the instructor that did the final OW checkout is the person who should decide if the student should be certified.
Because an instructor who has made one dive with a student will not likely have tested the student on all required skills. I believe we will agree that an instructor who completes all course work with a student will have a much better idea about that student's abilities than one who only conducts a small portion of the course work. With a referral, the instructors must work together to make the determination. It is a joint evaluation.
__________________
“'It’s the Instructor not the Agency' is a saying promulgated by the inadequate
to cover their shortcomings." - Thalassamania
"Walter....neither you nor I are very likeable anyway.." - Ana
[quote=Walter;3540121] I believe we will agree that an instructor who completes all course work with a student will have a much better idea about that student's abilities than one who only conducts a small portion of the course work. QUOTE]
I strongly disagree with this thought. I have seen many students who had no problems in the pool, yet turned into complete basket cases upon hitting the ocean.
The instructor who completes the coursework/pool work states that the student is ready to be evaluated. The evaluator gives the go/no-go.
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