Referral student issued Cert card by diff agency

[Mark Stanley]

I have run into this several times now and I am not sure how big of an issue it is. I have now had several students referr out for their open water certification. The referring shops have issued the students PADI C cards. Before sending the students I go over the paper work and remind them to being back the completed paperwork so I can order their C cards. The latest incident the student sees no need to come in since they already have their C card. It bothers me that A) the referring shops are issuing C cards and b) it really bugs me when it is not the same agency issuing the cards. Is there any recourse to this? or Is this something I should just let go and move on?

[Walter]

You should contact the instructor to whom you are referring students and come to an agreement prior to referring anyone. The referral is between you and another instructor. Don't give the paperwork to a student and send them off on their own.

The practice you describe is common and unethical.

[SteveAD]

By PADI standards the certifying instructor is the instructor who does open water dive #4. The "universal referral" concept that allows some instructors to accept referrals from other agencies (with different standards) is sure to cause confusion and imo is a bad idea.

[Walter]

Originally Posted by stevead

By PADI standards the certifying instructor is the instructor who does open water dive #4. The "universal referral" concept that allows some instructors to accept referrals from other agencies (with different standards) is sure to cause confusion and imo is a bad idea.

Since PADI does not participate in Universal referral, I don't know why you are bringing up PADI standards, but since you did...........

By PADI standards, the certifying instructor must insure that all PADI requirements are met. If they are accepting a referral from another agency, those requirements are not met. Certifying the student instead of returning the paper work to the referring instructor is not only unethical and a breach of contract, but a violation of PADI standards.

[SteveAD]

Originally Posted by Walter

Since PADI does not participate in Universal referral, I don't know why you are bringing up PADI standards, but since you did...........

By PADI standards, the certifying instructor must insure that all PADI requirements are met. If they are accepting a referral from another agency, those requirements are not met. Certifying the student instead of returning the paper work to the referring instructor is not only unethical and a breach of contract, but a violation of PADI standards.

I brought it up because the OP said the students were issued PADI C cards. Ok, obviously the recieving instructor is doing more than one thing wrong.

[Lead_carrier]

It is my understanding that PADI instructors can accept Universal Referrals but cannot issue one. They still might be required to issue a PADI cert anyway. Gotta keep those numbers rolling.

[Walter]

Originally Posted by Lead_carrier

It is my understanding that PADI instructors can accept Universal Referrals but cannot issue one.

Close. No instructor can accept Universal Referrals unless they are a Universal Referral Instructor. Universal Referral Instructors can be from any agency, including PADI. PADI allows their instructors to participate, but does not encourage them to do so. When a PADI instructor issues a referral, it must be to a PADI instructor.

Originally Posted by Lead_carrier

They still might be required to issue a PADI cert anyway. Gotta keep those numbers rolling.

There is no such requirement by PADI for their instructors to participate in Universal Referral. In order to issue a PADI cert, they have to make sure all PADI requirements are met. That will include classroom and pool work in which the student might not wish to participate.

[wreckchick]

This horse has already been beaten on the board, but a PADI instructor CAN accept referrals from other agencies and issue a PADI c-card. The student is expected to take an exam and demonstrate the pool skills. They are not required to be re-taught the confined water element if they can prove proficiency. The students, at my shop, are made aware of the change in agency and accept the difference. A PADI instructor's signature is not accepted by UR as a certifying instructor with the exception of SDI who will allow a PADI instructor to sign off on the paperwork.

Rachel

[Swampdonkey]

It seems more like a pissing match, in my opinion.

I mean a padi dive shop issue'ing a c-card with little regard to who actually taught these people who are refering them. To Wreck chick, it isn't you right to make a student to choose to accept the difference in train agencies. It is the store job to make sure that the student is good enough to be a diver and send that paper work back.

Why can't all these agencies quit this pissing match and for one just realize that people diving is the goal. No more stealing students and issues c-cards that clearly should be issued by the instructor who taught the most.

In the end, might as well beat my head against a wall on this one as padi people will say one thing and everyone else will say another thing.

[DiveSite]

From the Universal Referral website.....

News Release: PADI Instructors Can Accept Universal Referral Form
May 2003 - Universal Referral Program makes Referral Training “Customer Friendly”

The Universal Referral Program (URP) is a customer-oriented program designed to facilitate completion of open water training for students who travel for their training dives. According to a recent Professional Association of Diving Instructors (PADI) Training Bulletin, PADI instructors can now accept Universal Referral Program students.

The member organizations of the Universal Referral Program would like to extend their sincere appreciation to PADI, and to encourage all PADI instructors to take advantage of the new policy.

In a Training Bulletin issued second quarter of 2003, the Professional Association of Diving Instructors announced that PADI instructors "…complete the open water dives as outlined in the Universal guidelines and send the diver back to the original instructor for certification." PADI instructors now have the option of completing referrals for students possessing Universal Referral paperwork. According to PADI, members can look on the Member website for complete details or contact an educational consultant for additional information. The bulletin further stated that PADI insurance offered through Vicencia and Buckley covers the receiving PADI instructor for Universal Referral open water training.

"Referrals are a huge segment of the recreational diving business," said Gary Clark, director of marketing for SSI. "Making referrals seamless to the public will be great for divers, retailers, resorts and instructors. It should help resorts in particular, because they can provide great service to all referral customers, which is important in this tough travel market."

Jim Bram, President of NAUI Worldwide, added, "The Universal Referral Program helps everyone. Students appreciate having an easy to use program, dive centers and resorts gain new business, and instructors expand their training opportunities. We’re happy to see PADI instructors can now participate in this diving industry program."

The Universal Referral Program was founded in 1998 by IDEA, NASDS, NAUI, PDIC, SSI and YMCA. The URP established referral paperwork, procedures and a minimum list of agreed upon skills to be performed. A team of experienced educators, risk managers and attorneys developed the program, based on industry training standards. URP enrollment procedures and instructor qualifications are outlined in the URP program and managed by each respective training agency.

For information about the Universal Referral Program, please visit Universal Referral Program, or contact any member agency.