accident waiting to happen

[joens]

I was in a LDS the other day and the owner told me that a scuba tank used for filling paintball guns does not need a visual inspection.Can you believe that !!!!! but it gets worse ,it seems they have a lot of paint ballers that come in for air fills and they are selling their old rental tanks to them because they would no longer need to be inspected .Some of thes tanks are 20-25 years old . While I was there someone came in to pick up 5 tanks that were being used for paintball I looked at them .only 1 had a current Hydro and none had vis..Just in case anyone out there has heard this also or worse actually believes it it is absolute nonsense .
Joens

 

[WreckWriter]

they do the same for tire filling tanks in some places.

WW

 

[redacted]

Whether the owner sees it as a self imposed Scuba industry standard designed to provide an added margin of safety for fill station operators or another way to seperate a scuba diver and his money. I guess if you know the tank is not being used in an aquatic environment some of the safety concern should be abated. But I don't know how an LDS operator would know that about a scuba tank or why that would make him feel much better with aluminium tanks. Maybe the VIS on Al tanks is just another hoax inflicted upon us!

Next time you have a VIS due, tell him you don't need one because you are going to use it for paintball.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hydro testing is required by law. Yearly visuals are a scuba industry convention. However, the anual vis is MOST important on old Al tanks due to sustained load cracking.

We have alot of paint ballers come in for fills. We hold their tanks to the same standards as any other tanks. Since our policy is to not sell air to non-certified divers we ask them to mark the tank as for paintball only. I agree it leaves a loop-hole for an untrained diver to trick me into selling them air but you have to do something.

I have also had alot of trouble from paintball people. I have had them call me a crook for requiring a current visual and for charging ten dollars for it. I had the owner of a paintball shop demand that I sell him air cheaper. He was making a killing selling a bunch of little fills for #3 off the big one he bought from me for $5. I almost had to bodily remove him from my store.

I had another jack a$$ tear into us when I told him his tank needed a visual. He hadn't filled the tank in a year and insisted that it didn't need a visual with every fill. I explained that it did if he only filled it once a year. He also argued that he didn'y need a visual if he wasn't using it for diving. Of course I explained that he did if he wanted me ti fill it.

I would by far prefer all non-divers go somewhere else for their air. I fill them to make freinds in the community but it seems to have the opposite effect. It just isn't worth the trouble. I have never once had a problem with a diver over tank related policies.

 

[joens]

a tank is most likely to explode when it is being filled . what a tank is used for does not change that .especially in the tanks known to be at risk for sustained load cracking.and a tank can pass a hydro and still have a crack in it..
Joens

 

[FallenMatt]

joens once bubbled...
a tank is most likely to explode when it is being filled . what a tank is used for does not change that .especially in the tanks known to be at risk for sustained load cracking.and a tank can pass a hydro and still have a crack in it..
Joens

My understanding is that because of the above all the risk associated with filling a tank out of vis/hydro is fo rthe person doing the fill (ie. dive shop owner). so it doesn't matter how the tank is used, the risk is not on the owner side ...

also.. i dont' understand why would somebody need a fill from a dive shop ? this is not breathable air (for the paintgun) so there is no need for extra filtering.. wouldn't a "standard" compressor be enough ? with just some way to get water out of it so the tank don't end up with water slushing around inside ?

Also a non-diver owner is (i think) more likelly to drain the tank all empty and leave it like that giving it more chances for the water to get in and make its damage....

that more reasons to give it a vis check...

btw.. to what pressure are the tanks for paintball filled? also 3000 psi or lower ?

 

[norcaldiver]

They're rated to 3000, so I fill them to 3000. But, since I'm the part timer that gets stuck on the fill station, which means I'm the one with his head closest to the tank when I crank on the air, I'm not filling ANY tank that is 1 day over viz date. Secondary to that, the owner and mgrs would prolly rip me a new one anyway.

I've had a couple tanks come in drained. I make them do a viz before I'll hook it up. Usually, the guys don't know about that one, so the mgr will usually give them a break the 1st time and viz it reall quick for free.

The shop also makes non certified people sign a waiver saying that they won't use it for diving, etc. It makes for more paperwork, but in this day and age you can't CYA enough.

 

[Genesis]

VIS inspections are a "scuba thing".

However, since old AL tanks are the ones potentially at risk for explosions, as has been noted, its pretty dangerous to be ignoring inspections on them. (Even better, from my point of view, is simply not to fill those tanks at all!)

Older steels, as long as they're in hydro, are another matter. There is no record of them going "boom". But the paintballers probably wouldn't like them as much since they typically want 3,000 psi in their "source" tank.

 

[joens]

Genesis once bubbled...
VIS inspections are a "scuba thing".

that is not true. OSHA requires any employer to ensure that any cylinder handled by employees is safe based upon visual inspection . that includes dive shops regardless of the end use of the compressed gas.
Joens

 

[Genesis]

inspecting based on a "visual inspection" is not the same thing as a VIS! A VIS is an INTERIOR inspection.

Can you point to the OSHA reg that specifies the scuba-style "VIS sticker" as being conformant? I have read that particular piece and it appears to indicate that the filling person must physically inspect the cylinder when accepting it to be filled at that time, which of necessity is an external, visual, look.

Not the same thing as a "VIS" or "VIS+".