Pony bottle questions

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nikyyo

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I will be going to LP to buy a pony bottle this week and would appreciate some input from the board as far as how big, the bracket to use and first stage and second stage reg. Will any reg do? I have a SP mk25/s600 as a primary now and an r380 for an octo. Also< i'm unclear as to how I will be able to read the psi on the pony since it will be mounted on my back. How does that work? I'm thinking about a 19 cu bottle. Would there be any problems getting that on to a plane do ya think? I've read that some peple have the hose wraped around the pony. I don't understand that as how do they access the bottle when it is stapped to your main tank...I must be missing something. Thanks.
 
What is the purpose of the pony bottle? I ask because you're asking for opinions on how big it should be, without explaining it's intended purpose. Do you intend to use it for bailout? Do you know your SAC, and how to calculate how much gas you require to safely ascend from depth should you need to use the pony bottle?
 
It will be purely for a bail out bottle for non-deco dives.
 
I don't travel with scuba equipment by air very much but I don't think your getting it on the plane unless you pull the valve or something.

Why do you feel you need a pony bottle?
 
I only have 10 dives under my belt and was recently diving in ft. lauderdale. I was taken to Tenneco Towers which was a nice dive but what I learned from this board way beyond my capabilities right now at 110 feet.. I enjoyed the dive but felt a bit uneasy. I know if i had a redundant air source i would have been calmer. I know not to use it as a crutch and the importance of the buddy system. The sad fact which I am already learning is that one cannot always rely on a buddy. However, it's if going to be an issue as far as getting it on the plane I probably won't do it.
 
I can't really help with the pony bottle question but I remember feeling that way on my first few deep dives. I thought about getting a spare air and then about a pony. In my case more experience, some more training and real deep diving equipment is what got me comfortable below 100 ft.
 
nikyyo once bubbled...
I enjoyed the dive but felt a bit uneasy. I know if i had a redundant air source i would have been calmer.
But that sense of uneasiness is actually your friend. It lets you know that you are getting close to the line of your competence.

The false sense of security that you might get from packing a pony is not your friend. In fact... just packing the pony brings with it additional potential for problems.
 
Ok, here are your worms (you DID open the can!)

I now dive with a pony. Why? I spearfish. We often make poor buddies, and I've both gotten separated before (unintentionally) and also INTENTIONALLY dove with someone when we were both "on the hunt" and, while within visual range of one another, not really what the DIRites would call a "buddy team".

At 60', this is a problem, but not a huge one. You might get hurt doing a CESA from 60-70', but you'll probably also make it.

The problem is that we often dive at 80, 90, 100 or even 110', and I'm not AT ALL sure I can make a CESA from 110', nor am I going to attempt it to see if I can indeed do it without drowning!

The next question that arises is "do I do doubles or a pony"? For me, right now, the answer was "a pony." Why? Because doubles on a boat are a heavy biatch to deal with, I don't need the gas capacity they offer, and while there are advantages to doubles, what I'm really after is redundancy - which is actually LESS present with manifolded doubles than a fully independant "spare" kit in front of you!

Ok, so I made the decision I needed a pony. Now the next questions are "what size", and "how do I carry it?"

The "what size" question was easy to answer. I needed something that would permit both a REAL and a SAFE abort, AND it had to be useful at depths up to 130'. This, for me anyway, meant a 19 cf bottle. I can do a full ascent from 130' on this, make my 3 minute stop at 15', and have gas left. If I start at lesser depth, I can even do light deco (a few minutes) and not run out of gas. I fill the pony with AIR, not Nitrox, because I do not want to worry about a hard floor AND I want to "practice" using it regularly, which means it will frequently get topped off - dumping mix is wasteful. Finally, there is no real impact on NDLs in this case, since if you draw it the dive is over and you're ascending.

The final question is "how carried?" I fought with this. Most of my dive partners carry theirs strapped to their primary tank. I decided to sling mine, for a number of reasons. In no particular order:

1. Its out of the way. You wouldn't think so, but it is. The bottom rides up and it tucks under your shoulder; in the water you don't even know its there. On land its a PITA, but that's not where you use it, right? A giant-stride entry is pretty easy; I "press" it against my side with my left arm; the same hand holds my reg and mask front in on entry; no problem there. I turn the bottle on, charge the hose, then turn it OFF - this prevents a freeflow problem if the purge gets hit accidentally; the valve is immediately accessible (literally "in your face") if you need it.

2. I can read the gauge. I use a "stage-style" rigging on a 6" HP hose and a regular gauge bent back and secured to the first stage with a piece of cave line. Its "right there".

3. I can hand off the ENTIRE THING if someone ELSE needs it. Two bolt snaps are all that holds it to me; I can thus give it to someone if they need it underwater. The reg is on a standard octo-length hose.

4. If it gets hung up on something, I can see it to free it. Not possible if you get hung up on a back-mount.

5. It doesn't seem to affect my trim at all. I like that.

6. Finally, in a TRUE emergency, where I'm entangled behind myself and can't get my kit free, if I am personally not entangled I can ditch my entire KIT and ascend on the pony! Yes, that will be a true "brown water" scenario, but having something to breathe in that case beats the hell out of not!
 
For a no-stop dive a pony is a perfectly viable option as a bailout bottle to cover a catastrophic failure (total wide-open freeflow, for example, just at the ascent point) of the primary regulator. It provides a redundant regulator and sufficient gas to make a normal ascent with safety stop. It can also be handed off to "the unknown diver from hell" should he/she run out of air and suddenly want yours. Note that to have the hand-off option the pony should be carried up front where you can quickly and easily release it. (this also solves the problem of seeing the pressure gauge.)
As an example, let's use a high end SCR, say 1 CFM. On a 120 ft dive, you'd need 4 minutes at an average depth of 60 FSW, or a bit less than 12 CF for the ascent. Add a five minute safety stop at 15 feet, a bit under another 7.5 CF, for a total of 19.5 CF. That'd leave over 10 CF (1000 psi) in a 30 CF pony... a comfortable margin.
Many on this board have an aversion to pony bottles as bailout bottles. I do not, and in fact I recommend 'em as one option to provide acceptable redundancy on no-stop, no overhead dives in the 100-130' range.
Also note that the pony is to cover bailout in the event of failure, or as a hand-off to some idiot who doesn't manage his own gas - it in no way relieves the diver of the responsibility of having enough gas in his main tank to safely arrive on the boat with his planned reserve without tapping the pony absent that emergency.
Rick
 

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