djhall
Guest
I have read many/most of the threads regarding the pros and cons of using a bailout bottle, and have decided to experiment with one anyway :bonk:. The two main carrying options appear to be 1) under the left arm in a sling or 2) on the side of my main tank. I intend to try both mouning options to determine which one works best for me. However, I have two questions about back mounting the bottle alongside the main tank.
1) What are the relative pros and cons of mounting it valve up vs. valve down?
2) Does anyone have any experience using a mount which does not require any modifications to the main tank (ie. rental tanks). I am leaning toward trying the Aqua Explorers Ultimate Pony Bracket, but I would appreciate feedback about any of the possible options.
Thank you for any advice/experience you can contribute.
*** Why do I think I need a pony bottle explaination. ***
That said, I am sure I will also recieve a flood of, "why are you thinking about a pony bottle?" and, "you must be an idiot if you want to carry a pony bottle" responses. I will try to explain my reasons for trying a bailout bottle, and I would appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE feedback about other/better ways to accomplish my objectives. As for the idiot charge, well...maybe, maybe not. But, since I am the one who has to live or die with my decision, I have to go with what I feel is the best choice for me.
I consider myself an upwardly mobile "novice" diver (PADI AOW, occasional diver, just joined LDS' dive club to gain more experience, want to obtain nitrox, dry suit, rescue, etc.). I have recently aquired my own basic set of gear, with the notable exeption of tanks. The LDS supplies free rental tanks to club members, though we pay the regular fill fee ($4) for the ones we return empty. For a weekend of diving, we simply pick up a trunk full of tanks and use what we need. For non-local diving, I use the tanks supplied by the dive boat operator. All of my diving is strictly open-water, no-decompression, most 40 to 80 feet, some 80-100. I usually travel alone or with non-divers, so most dive boat dives are with strangers for buddies. Since I am new to the dive club, all local dives are with untested buddies as well. This makes me somewhat concerned about redundancy. When I was limited to 60 fsw or less, I was fairly confident of my ability to survive an OOA "Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent." Now that I am sometimes pushing to 80-120 fsw, I am fairly confident I DON'T want to attempt an OOA CESA.
Many posts here recommend one or more of the following alternatives as preferable to a 19cf bailout bottle:
1) Experienced dive buddy
2) Single w/ Y or H Valve
3) Duals w/ Isolation Manifold
4) 30/40cf sling bottle
5) More/Better Training
6) No solution necessary
1) My diving and travel circumstances make an experienced and reliable dive buddy an iffy proposition. At best, it will be many dives before I completely trust someone to be there when I need them, realize I am in trouble, know what to do, and carry out a solution without contributing to the problem. Even then, would I never dive anywhere or anytime unless that person came too?
Would anyone really trust a stranger with this responsibility?
2) It does not make financial sense to me to spend $500 - $600 to purchase the absolute minimum of two personal tanks, plus pay inspection costs, when rental tanks are free (I pay filling either way), abundant, and provide adequate air for open water, no-decompression dives. Y or H valves on rental tanks is not an option.
3) If owning my own singles is not an option, owning my own doubles does not require further discussion. It does not make financial sense, and I don't require additional planned air for the kind of diving I do.
4) A 30/40cf sling bottle seems to make a lot of sense. However, I am rather concerned that I may not carry it with me on every single dive I ever make. A 30 or 40cf tank is rather large and heavy to lug around for something I never, ever, ever, intend to use. I can just hear the little voice saying, "Your buddy is a dive master, the rocks are kinda slippery, its a long way to haul the tank to the beach, and you're only diving to 60 feet anyway...."
5) More/better training may help prevent an OOA situation caused by foreseeable/avoidable entanglement, incompetence, failure to pay attention, etc. However, it does not make you immune to equipment failure, and even the most highly trained diver on earth is still human, falliable, and capable of making a mistake. Thus, more training does not seem to eliminate the usefullness of redundancy.
6) One COULD argue that open water, no-decompression dives under the recreational limit of 130 feet do not require redundancy, since "controlled emergency swimming ascents" are theoretically surviveable in the event an OOA emergency coincides with a buddy-system failure. Too many peope have died from OOA in far less water for me to accept this as my backup answer.
From what I have read of others' experiences, along with my own theoretical calculations, a 19cf bailout bottle, at the maximum recreational depth of 130 fsw, within no-decompression limits, should provide enough air for me to spend 30-60 seconds recovering, and then either 1) obtain assistance from my buddy, or 2) make a direct ascent at a rate of 30 to 60 ft/min, stop at 15-20 fsw, and safety stop for 3-5 minutes OR until the bottle runs out. It may not be elegant, but it gets me to the surface alive! It may not be ideal, but it would be practical and affordable, and it seems to meet my needs for my current level of diving. Of course, I won't know until I get out there with one and start testing it.
Hopefully, I am not beating a dead pony here. If so, blame it on my newness to the board.
1) What are the relative pros and cons of mounting it valve up vs. valve down?
2) Does anyone have any experience using a mount which does not require any modifications to the main tank (ie. rental tanks). I am leaning toward trying the Aqua Explorers Ultimate Pony Bracket, but I would appreciate feedback about any of the possible options.
Thank you for any advice/experience you can contribute.
*** Why do I think I need a pony bottle explaination. ***
That said, I am sure I will also recieve a flood of, "why are you thinking about a pony bottle?" and, "you must be an idiot if you want to carry a pony bottle" responses. I will try to explain my reasons for trying a bailout bottle, and I would appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE feedback about other/better ways to accomplish my objectives. As for the idiot charge, well...maybe, maybe not. But, since I am the one who has to live or die with my decision, I have to go with what I feel is the best choice for me.
I consider myself an upwardly mobile "novice" diver (PADI AOW, occasional diver, just joined LDS' dive club to gain more experience, want to obtain nitrox, dry suit, rescue, etc.). I have recently aquired my own basic set of gear, with the notable exeption of tanks. The LDS supplies free rental tanks to club members, though we pay the regular fill fee ($4) for the ones we return empty. For a weekend of diving, we simply pick up a trunk full of tanks and use what we need. For non-local diving, I use the tanks supplied by the dive boat operator. All of my diving is strictly open-water, no-decompression, most 40 to 80 feet, some 80-100. I usually travel alone or with non-divers, so most dive boat dives are with strangers for buddies. Since I am new to the dive club, all local dives are with untested buddies as well. This makes me somewhat concerned about redundancy. When I was limited to 60 fsw or less, I was fairly confident of my ability to survive an OOA "Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent." Now that I am sometimes pushing to 80-120 fsw, I am fairly confident I DON'T want to attempt an OOA CESA.
Many posts here recommend one or more of the following alternatives as preferable to a 19cf bailout bottle:
1) Experienced dive buddy
2) Single w/ Y or H Valve
3) Duals w/ Isolation Manifold
4) 30/40cf sling bottle
5) More/Better Training
6) No solution necessary
1) My diving and travel circumstances make an experienced and reliable dive buddy an iffy proposition. At best, it will be many dives before I completely trust someone to be there when I need them, realize I am in trouble, know what to do, and carry out a solution without contributing to the problem. Even then, would I never dive anywhere or anytime unless that person came too?
Would anyone really trust a stranger with this responsibility?
2) It does not make financial sense to me to spend $500 - $600 to purchase the absolute minimum of two personal tanks, plus pay inspection costs, when rental tanks are free (I pay filling either way), abundant, and provide adequate air for open water, no-decompression dives. Y or H valves on rental tanks is not an option.
3) If owning my own singles is not an option, owning my own doubles does not require further discussion. It does not make financial sense, and I don't require additional planned air for the kind of diving I do.
4) A 30/40cf sling bottle seems to make a lot of sense. However, I am rather concerned that I may not carry it with me on every single dive I ever make. A 30 or 40cf tank is rather large and heavy to lug around for something I never, ever, ever, intend to use. I can just hear the little voice saying, "Your buddy is a dive master, the rocks are kinda slippery, its a long way to haul the tank to the beach, and you're only diving to 60 feet anyway...."
5) More/better training may help prevent an OOA situation caused by foreseeable/avoidable entanglement, incompetence, failure to pay attention, etc. However, it does not make you immune to equipment failure, and even the most highly trained diver on earth is still human, falliable, and capable of making a mistake. Thus, more training does not seem to eliminate the usefullness of redundancy.
6) One COULD argue that open water, no-decompression dives under the recreational limit of 130 feet do not require redundancy, since "controlled emergency swimming ascents" are theoretically surviveable in the event an OOA emergency coincides with a buddy-system failure. Too many peope have died from OOA in far less water for me to accept this as my backup answer.
From what I have read of others' experiences, along with my own theoretical calculations, a 19cf bailout bottle, at the maximum recreational depth of 130 fsw, within no-decompression limits, should provide enough air for me to spend 30-60 seconds recovering, and then either 1) obtain assistance from my buddy, or 2) make a direct ascent at a rate of 30 to 60 ft/min, stop at 15-20 fsw, and safety stop for 3-5 minutes OR until the bottle runs out. It may not be elegant, but it gets me to the surface alive! It may not be ideal, but it would be practical and affordable, and it seems to meet my needs for my current level of diving. Of course, I won't know until I get out there with one and start testing it.
Hopefully, I am not beating a dead pony here. If so, blame it on my newness to the board.
. The question is, did I make the mistakes for the right reasons 
