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Hey guys, quick question for you. I have several aluminum 80 tanks that were made in the middle 70's (one in 76, the other 75) Now i am going to get them hydro'd and visualed, however, i have been warned by several people that LDS's will only fill tanks that have been made before 75 to 2000 psi, even if they are current in hydro and vis. I have even been told some shops won't fill them at all. Any thoughts on why this is? Any reason tanks should not be filled any more even though they are within hydro? Is it all tanks or just aluminums?
Too many divers focus on taking care of the equipment they buy rather than the equipment they are. We must remember that the most important piece of gear a diver owns is his mind.
Don't plan any trips to Florida, You will find maybe one shop down there that will even let your tanks in their door. I have several tanks from that era that have been owned by me or someone in my family since new. And as such I know the complete history of each tank and have no problems filling and diving with them in the midwest. The reason that history is important at least to me is that I know for absolute fact that they have never been "cave filled" a common practice down in Florida since at least the eighties that I know of. A cave fill is a fill beyond the designed service pressure of your tank ie: 4000 psi for a 3000 psi rated AL80 and IMHO a significant comtributing factor to at least some of the failures that started the whole "older tanks rupture and hurt people" mess......There is a list of tanks published by Luxfer or the D.O.T. that specifies which batches of tanks that were to be condemned. Your LDS or whomever they use for hydros will have this available. Bottom line is call your LDS or the shops near where you dive and ask them if they have a problem filling older tanks. Good luck
Disregard the above post and search for "6351" here on Scubaboard.
It doesn't have anything to do with overfills, it's related to the alloy used for the cylinder. And for the record, if your tanks are Catalinas, you're not affected (so see who made your tanks first).
Don't plan any trips to Florida, You will find maybe one shop down there that will even let your tanks in their door. I have several tanks from that era that have been owned by me or someone in my family since new. And as such I know the complete history of each tank and have no problems filling and diving with them in the midwest. The reason that history is important at least to me is that I know for absolute fact that they have never been "cave filled" a common practice down in Florida since at least the eighties that I know of. A cave fill is a fill beyond the designed service pressure of your tank ie: 4000 psi for a 3000 psi rated AL80 and IMHO a significant comtributing factor to at least some of the failures that started the whole "older tanks rupture and hurt people" mess......There is a list of tanks published by Luxfer or the D.O.T. that specifies which batches of tanks that were to be condemned. Your LDS or whomever they use for hydros will have this available. Bottom line is call your LDS or the shops near where you dive and ask them if they have a problem filling older tanks. Good luck
I've never seen anyone anywhere even florida crank up an aluminum cylinder. I'm sure it has happened here and there but from what I have seen it is NOT common practice. If you ask for a "cave fill" on your double aluminum 80s' your not going to walk away with 4000 psi, you'll probably just get an odd look and 3000 or 3300 at the very most.
agreed-I live in Fl and dive mostly Al tanks-some older. There are some shops that say no and others that are OK with it but I have not had to call a dive because I could not get a fill to 3000psi (or 3300 on my 100's).
To the OP-go ask the dive shops in the area you will be diving-depending on the specific alloy used, some shops might require an eddy current but that will be it. I suspect you will find more then one shop that will give you a complete fill
6351 ali cylinders are not worth the hassles anymore. Around here hydros are $25-35 and visual eddy tests are on top of that. Given the difficulty in getting the older alloy filled, the need for frequent inspections, the added expense of visual eddy tests, and the high likelihood of being taken out of service, the old ALs just aren't worth it anymore. Scrap value is about ~$12. Just recycle them and buy some more modern AL cylinders off craig's list for $60-70. Anything made by Catalina or post 1990 Luxfers.
I've never seen anyone anywhere even florida crank up an aluminum cylinder. I'm sure it has happened here and there but from what I have seen it is NOT common practice. If you ask for a "cave fill" on your double aluminum 80s' your not going to walk away with 4000 psi, you'll probably just get an odd look and 3000 or 3300 at the very most.
Disregard my post ..... really????? hmmmm well I suppose so.....
I was offered "cave fills" to 4000 back in the 80's by the dive shop at ginnie and they will absolutely not fill tanks older than 1990 now period. A list of shops in my recent experience that will not fill older AL 80's: ginnie, devils den, blue grotto, I forget the name but the dive shop in leesburg, the shop in ocala there is another shop right near the blue grotto that refuses and we even tried a couple of shops down in the keys( If you really want I will dig up the names of the shops when I get home but you get my point). As far as the alloy, yes you are right that is why I said check for the list of condemned tank numbers at you LDS. But there have been ruptures of tanks that weren't on the list as well.
Perhaps it would be a service to those of us that travel south to dive if someone could start a list of shops down there that do fill older tanks.
6351 ali cylinders are not worth the hassles anymore. Around here hydros are $25-35 and visual eddy tests are on top of that. Given the difficulty in getting the older alloy filled, the need for frequent inspections, the added expense of visual eddy tests, and the high likelihood of being taken out of service, the old ALs just aren't worth it anymore. Scrap value is about ~$12. Just recycle them and buy some more modern AL cylinders off craig's list for $60-70. Anything made by Catalina or post 1990 Luxfers.
If the scrap value is ~12 I will give you ~14 for your old unwanted tanks-seriously.
TBix- Currently, no one overfills aluminum tanks. We are all very wary of aluminum tanks now.
Ginnie will fill any aluminum tank made out of 6061 alloy, regardless of what year it was made, as long as it is in current hydro and vip.
I personally refuse to fill any time made out of any alloy other than 6061. My life is not worth you saving $100 by continuing to use tanks made out of an alloy known by the DOT to have a higher chance of rupturing than the 6061 alloy.
Also, 6351 alloy tanks made great ashtrays, umbrella stands, lamps, etc.
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Originally Posted by T. Bix
