BTS (EUROCYLINDERS) tank, year 2010, completely OXIDATED

[chromi]

Hi, everybody

I come here with a recent problem I had with a tank, brand BTS (also known as EUROCYLINDERS), that I bought in a Dive Shop in Tenerife (Spain) in January 2011.

It´s a 12 litres steel tank, with double valve, with manufacture date AUGUST 2010.

On first days of January 2012 I sent it to the authorized place for the mandatory annual Visual Inspection.

The out side of the tank is this:






And this is what the techniccian found when he opened it. He inmediately called to go and check it, telling me he had never seen a tank in these conditions with that manufacturing date and that the cylinder has a manufacture fail.
These are the pics:



The tanks has around 40 dives, has been always charged in 2 authorized charging stations, where I go with my other tank - different brand- that was perfect in the same Visual Inspection.
Never has been empty and I washed it often in unsalted water.

I can´t show pics from the inside of the cylinder, but it was completely oxidated, from the top to the bottom.

When we put it down, this is what came out from inside:




And these are some of the oxide marks outside the tank. As you can see in the pics they are not due to scratches:






The dive shop where I bought it denies any responsability (in fact they didn´t even take note of the serial number of took any pictures when I was there with it during more than half an hour), even the tansk is IN GUARANTEE, arguing that
all is my fault beause of wrong done tank charges. Next day I send them a photo with the serial nº ... that was around twenty day ago.


I wrote to BTS Europa using the ¨contact¨ menu of their web page on Saturday, 28 January... NO ANSWER



I need some help from the forum... What should I do now??????????


thanks

 

[lucca brassi]

BtS is global online shop , (wholesaler) , but Eurocylinders AG is company that produce tanks.

Maybe is good to contact Quality service in Eurocyliners company direct with ( report , tank serial , shop bill , if it is possible with

Eurocylinders AG

I have same valve on my Faber tank ( 1year ), but I'm also looking on small ECS doubles ....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You use both ventils , A clamps...?

It looks to me that seat for O-ring was not OK , or assembly valves &tank was not OK , rest of thread is realtive OK because of tightening failure.

a lot of rust ... are these filling stations OK (truly) ?

 

[Scared Silly]

The rust on the outside of the cylinder is not unusual when paint chips. The rust on the inside could of happened if there was water inside the valve when filled - but there is too must rust for that. My only guess is that the filling station had a malfunction with a moisture filter and it blew water into your cylinder. As the only other explanation would be the cylinder was emptied and water went in.

As for what to do. You are in a difficult place - the charging stations will say it is your fault (empty cylinder) or it was the other charging station. We have an expression in english "he said - she said" and the person with the problem loses.

The manufacturer will not guarantee the cylinder for the same reasons as the rust is due to water intrusion which not a manufacturing defect. However, I would contact the manufacturer and see if they will help. Sometimes they will make exceptions.

If neither shop that charged the cylinder will help in anyway I would file a complaint about "bad air charging" with what ever local authority you have in Spain - it will not change the situation but may make you feel better.

 

[Leadking]

The problem is not with BTS or the cylinder manufacturer. It was due to water in the tank. Either from running the tank out of air or by a fill station that was pumping water.

Either way your out of luck.

 

[chromi]

The rust on the outside of the cylinder is not unusual when paint chips. The rust on the inside could of happened if there was water inside the valve when filled - but there is too must rust for that. My only guess is that the filling station had a malfunction with a moisture filter and it blew water into your cylinder. As the only other explanation would be the cylinder was emptied and water went in.

As for what to do. You are in a difficult place - the charging stations will say it is your fault (empty cylinder) or it was the other charging station. We have an expression in english "he said - she said" and the person with the problem loses.

The manufacturer will not guarantee the cylinder for the same reasons as the rust is due to water intrusion which not a manufacturing defect. However, I would contact the manufacturer and see if they will help. Sometimes they will make exceptions.

If neither shop that charged the cylinder will help in anyway I would file a complaint about "bad air charging" with what ever local authority you have in Spain - it will not change the situation but may make you feel better.

thanks for your reply, Scared Silly,

you´re quite right in everything you say, but there is one point plus to add is that the tank was reviewed by an authorized technician who says this cannot just by "bad charging" , as you say too much rust inside.

And on the other way as a product in guarantee , the shop that sold me the tank should have to take it and my complain to the manufaturer, and not act like ¨it´s not my problem, just pay for the cleaning¨. By law, they have to bring the product to the official place where they´ll check it, and then tell if there is any fault in the tank or not, cause maybe there are another tanks with the same problem and maybe their owner didn´t bring it for inspection.

In fact, BTS aready answered my saying that to evaluate what happened they needed the tank in their office. In my opinnion, that should have be done since the first momment by the dive shop, and not by myself.

As you say, I´m in a difficult place cause nothing can be proved...except that the regulations about guarantee has been forgotten by the dive shop.


Let´s see what happens with the tank next year in the same inspection.

Thanks again por your help

 

[chromi]

The problem is not with BTS or the cylinder manufacturer. It was due to water in the tank. Either from running the tank out of air or by a fill station that was pumping water.

Either way your out of luck.

thanks for your opinnion, Leadking, but because I forgot a small detail this is not totally true.

I bought the tank and the valve ALREADY MOUNTED ON. So i could never check inside.

I know my tank has never been empty from January 2011 to January 2012, but I don´t know if there was water inside the tank already when they sold it to me, from August 2010 to January 2011... because of an unadequeate storing, mounting or whatever. The reality is that the tank could have been completely oxidated before selling it to me.

So, the lesson for me is next time you buy a tank, check inside before mounting the valve.

 

[redacted]

I don't understand how water inside would result in the rust pictured in the area of the tank valve. That rust is on both sides of the tank o-ring.

 

[chromi]

I don't understand how water inside would result in the rust pictured in the area of the tank valve. That rust is on both sides of the tank o-ring.

BtS is global online shop , (wholesaler) , but Eurocylinders AG is company that produce tanks.

Maybe is good to contact Quality service in Eurocyliners company direct with ( report , tank serial , shop bill , if it is possible with

Eurocylinders AG

I have same valve on my Faber tank ( 1year ), but I'm also looking on small ECS doubles ....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You use both ventils , A clamps...?

It looks to me that seat for O-ring was not OK , or assembly valves &tank was not OK , rest of thread is realtive OK because of tightening failure.

a lot of rust ... are these filling stations OK (truly) ?

thanks for the link, Lucca,

I´ll write them

I use just one of the valves, so from that point some water could have been get inside if in any of the charges they used the non-used valve and forgot also to purge it before charging, but I don´t thin it can justify so much oxid and of course cannot justify the oxid in the area around the o-ring.

The Techiniccian at the service where i sent to clean it, told me the same as you: that maybe there was a fault in the o-ring or a bad mounting.

 

[chromi]

I don't understand how water inside would result in the rust pictured in the area of the tank valve. That rust is on both sides of the tank o-ring.

that´s the point !!!

 

[widget]

I have to say its quite an intriguing situation.

Firstly, I would have to say Euro cylinders are a very respected manufacturer, I have bought literally hundreds of cylinders from them from as far back as the early 90's when they were known as "Apolda". These guys literally work on 4-6 months lead time, so the day the cylinder is manufactured its already sold, and packing and shipping happen almost immediately. Its highly unlikely water got into the cylinder at the manufacturer.

Without knowing if they found water inside when the tank was opened, in my opinion there are two issues at play here, the first is the valve dip tube shows signs of oxidation, this indicates either the tank was shipped to you with water in it, or you are getting poor fills, I am inclined to lean a bit toward the latter, and I'll tell you why, its unlikely moisture will remain in a cylinder for over a year if you are getting good fills, not draining the tank regularly etc,..... so although there will be corrosion, I am of the opinion it would require a fairly continuous supply of moisture (from poor fills) to reach this level of oxidation.

The second issue I see is the corrosion on the cylinder valve seal (the V shape that traps the o-ring) , as others say this is strange, but not unseen, and the issue often lies with the valve and o ring.

Again, without knowing if you had a very minor leak around the valve neck, I am guessing there is a gap, minuscule as it may be, between the o-ring and the valve base when its threaded down, water go's between the o-ring and the valve base and is trapped there, especially if the tank is stored in an upright position, over time and continuous immersions corrosion sets in. This could be due to a number of reasons, not least of which is an incorrectly sized o-ring, the valve not been tightened down sufficiently or an incorrect valve. I am not saying this is the issue, but if I look carefully at that valve I do not see a small undercut ring before the thread begins, valves for cylinders with this neck structure use a valve with an undercut which tightens down into the V shaped neck and presses tightly against the o-ring.

I am open to other suggestions, but that's my impression.