XS Scuba manifolds with engravings vs HOG manifolds without.

[kr2y5]

I ordered a set of HP100s, and an XS Scuba 300-bar manifold. I was surprised to see the valves come with the screaming "AIR ONLY" engravings. Apparently, this is something they started doing recently for liability reasons, even though the manufacturer claims that their valves are "the cleanest, they can't get anymore clean". I have the option to swap it for a 200-bar manifold, but it turns out, that one also comes with the stupid engravings, this time "40% MAX OXYGEN PREMIXED". If my understanding is correct, that rules out partial pressure blending, and it potentially limits the set of places where I can get a fill. I am not sure how much that really matters in practice these days, but it bothers me...

Would this bother you?

I really like that these valves only require 1.5 turns to fully open or close, and for all I can tell, XS seems like a solid brand. Not sure how much trouble these engravings are going to give me in practice. I could probably scratch them off, but then again, not sure if that would create any problems with getting a fill.

I have the option to swap the XS scuba manifold for HOG. I have not seen too many reviews of HOG, not sure how the two compare...

Thoughts?

 

[Scared Silly]

I have no idea why the 300 bar (7 thread) version is air only. As for the 200 bar (5 thread) version - the 40% is because of liability as scuba valves are not made for O2 service.

That said are they really engraving it into the manifold now? I thought it was just a sticker that shows the service pressure. As for the practical side I have and others O2 clean valves regardless of the type. I did 2 set of 300 bar that were Thermo (now XS Scuba) plus some others from Sea Elite.

As for comparing. Thermo/XS Scuba are very nice valves but expensive. I have no idea who is making HOG's manifold but it looks very very similar to the Sea-Elite/Dive Rite manifold which is a very good valve.

 

[kr2y5]

That said are they really engraving it into the manifold now? I thought it was just a sticker that shows the service pressure.

I cannot tell with absolute 100% confidence because they are still in a plastic bag, and I want to be able to return them "unused", but I tried to rub against it to see it it might come off, and the surface seems perfectly smooth, you can see it on the picture below.

the 40% is because of liability as scuba valves are not made for O2 service.

I hope some of them are, because I want to be able to rig my Oxygen bottle. It looks like all HOG valves come out factory 100% O2 compatible (?). I would even be willing to dismantle those XS valves and O2 clean them myself, but not sure if this is something I can safely do on my own. Plus, even if cleaned, I would have to find some way to get rid of the engravings without making it look like I tampered with the valves, and risking not getting a fill.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

It puts dive shops in a very bad place as well. The liability gets transferred directly to them if they are partial pressure filling tanks with pure o2. The only option is to avoid buying products that have those markings.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Thermo makes nice valves/manifolds, but I would not buy a product with any of those bull markings.

 

[tolzmaka]

I agree with Dr. Lecter , I wouldn't buy any thing from anyone that had some kind of marking on it like that - any valve that is made of steel alloy(SS) or brass can be O2 clean. If it is not of these materials it's not fit for a valve. Besides, I for one will not tolerate the scuba gas secrete police telling me what to do or what stickers to put on my equipment - but I digress. Hog makes excellent gear - and the "Sea-Elite" Type manifolds are great performers. I have two of them. As far as how may turns the Hog valves take to open/close, you can contact Jim Lapenta Right here on SB - Resident Hog Expert/Rep/Dealer.
In addition, in my own opinion there really isn't any practical difference between the 200 and the 300 bar DIN connections - I just don't see two threads making all the difference in the world - but that's just me.

 

[kr2y5]

I know, I have the same reaction as Dr. Lecter. I want to be open minded about it, but it is beyond aesthetically displeasing. I will talk to Jim. Meanwhile, what other brands of manifolds would you highly recommend? Perhaps I can talk the shop that sold it to me into expanding their offering... I know they are just as annoyed about this new development as I am.

 

[tolzmaka]

Being a rather meticulous person (and some might say cheap) I clean all of my valves my self. Northeast Scuba Supply happens to be where I get my valve parts but there are lots of shops that stock all the necessary parts and O2 compatible O-rings for properly doing the job. One of the best sources for learning to safely perform these tasks in the home environment is Vance Harlow's OXYGEN HACKER'S COMPANION. It's available online and a great resource that takes the mystery and BS out of gas handling and doing it in a safe manner. I can't say with any authority because I'm no dealer - but the Sea-Elite, Dive Rite, HOG, Dolphin Tech and even the old Halcyon manifolds appear to be of the same design if not the same manufacturer with just slightly different stampings. They are all very robust, thick castings with, for the most part, interchangeable internals, - the bonnet nuts may differ slightly depending on date of manufacture but, basically all the same and easy to learn, with attention to detail. Another nice feature about these valves is that the components to convert these to H-valves are readily available.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I was just recently searching for a manifold and was looking at these. Their ads seemed contradictory, so I inquired with an email. Someone actually called me and he was great on the phone, Mark I believe. I really wanted to buy from him, but had to pass because their HP, DIN manifold is air only. He explained that in order to be O2 clean by CGA regulations an HP manifold would have to be tested with 4,500 PSI pure O2, which he felt isn't possible. So he assured me they are O2 clean, but can't be advertised that way. They want it both ways, buy it because it's O2 clean, but if there's a problem - hey it says in writing right here "Air Only." I won't buy from people that play games like that so I passed and bought elsewhere. However, I did not know they came with Air Only stamped on them. I would have a HUGE problem with that and I would send them back. I would think there would be more liability in stamping them Air Only and then telling everyone verbally that they're O2 clean.

I would think you would have great difficulty getting anyone to put anything other than air in them stamped like that. I'm having trouble getting premix with tanks that are O2 clean, sans Nitrox bands. I just had a shop tell me yesterday that they couldn't fill tanks without Nitrox bands because they just got fined by DOT for doing it. (Call me skeptical) I'm tired of the Nitrox paranoia and double standards. No one wants an accident, but when you try to do right by getting your stuff O2 clean, THEY start playing games and hedging. How do you think a dive shop would react if I came in with Nitrox tanks stamped - O2 CLEAN (OK, NOT REALLY). They wouldn't like it one bit. So when I pay top-dollar for O2 clean, I expect it to really be O2 clean and I expect it to be marked that way and I expect the person selling to stand behind it.

Note to dive shops / manufacturers... If you want divers to not play games with Nitrox, how about returning the favor.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

They lied. The dot does not fine you for filling tanks with nitrox that do not have nitrox bands. The bands are a scuba industry adopted practice. Its not a rule, regulation, standard, or even universal practice. Tell them they need to close their shop as they are giving all fillers a bad name.