DSAT Materials

[RikRaeder]

I'm just wondering what all is included in the DSAT Tec Deep materials. You get a manual, a planning slate...what exactly do you get/need for the course (educational material wise).

[Peter Guy]

Good question and I hope some DSAT instructor will answer. Because I was interested in what is taught, I just bought (and received) the "TEC Deep Diver" manual. I've now finished Ch. 1 and thought it presented a very readable overview of "Technical Diving" the gear and such.

I couldn't help but laugh, however at two things:

1. How the author (singular?) kept saying "You can do this as a Recreational Diver and it is OK but a Technical Diver needs to 'Do It Better' or 'Do It Safer'" (this is the gist of what he wrote, NOT the wording -- OK, I'm just playing with you know what) and the only reason I could come up with a justification was that the author didn't want to step on toes. But it certainly would have been nice for the author to write, "The Recreational Diver would be well advised to ALSO learn how to do this -- or streamline her gear in a similar manner -- or whatever."

b. The other laughable part are the pictures of the training of divers in a pool, ON THEIR KNEES! I don't know about others, but my technical training has emphasized NOT touching anything and, to the contrary, being able to learn and do the various skills in the water column and in "appropriate" trim.

[rongoodman]

Don't forget the famous instructions on shooting a bag, "hold onto something with your legs, or have your team mates hold you down". I don't think there's a single picture in the book of a diver in flat trim. I see comments about how good PADI/DSAT instructional materials are, and can only wonder.

[RikRaeder]

Just to claify, my actual question was what kind of materials come with the manuals, ie; slates, tables, etc. Having read through the manual myself, I've noticed that most skills progress from doing them on the bottom, to while hovering, to while hovering and maintaining depth...but I digress.

[Colliam7]

Just to claify, my actual question was what kind of materials come with the manuals, ie; slates, tables, etc. Having read through the manual myself, I've noticed that most skills progress from doing them on the bottom, to while hovering, to while hovering and maintaining depth...but I digress.

1) Manual; 2) Dive Planning Checklist slates (2); 3) Dive Planning Slate (1, large); 4) Emergency Procedures slate (1); 5) Stop Calculation Slate (1). And, your 'read' is correct, the skills do progress from 'bottom', to hovering, to hovering while maintaing depth. So, while there are some really 'humorous' photographs, and a few statements that do cause cause you to wonder, the TecDeep manual is one of the best PADI/DSAT produces, and the course content (with a good instructor) is quite useful.

[DevonDiver]

But it certainly would have been nice for the author to write, "The Recreational Diver would be well advised to ALSO learn how to do this -- or streamline her gear in a similar manner -- or whatever."

Well...it is a book for tech diving students....so why address recommendations for recreational divers in it?

b. The other laughable part are the pictures of the training of divers in a pool, ON THEIR KNEES! I don't know about others, but my technical training has emphasized NOT touching anything and, to the contrary, being able to learn and do the various skills in the water column and in "appropriate" trim.

Because the photos are of the confined water skills training. Everyone has to start somewhere...and for most people entering their first tech program, they have to learn theses skils...develop their trim....and then put the two things together.

Or would you expect to learn excellent trim, perfect bouyancy and DSMB deployment in 15 minutes?

Don't forget the famous instructions on shooting a bag, "hold onto something with your legs, or have your team mates hold you down". I don't think there's a single picture in the book of a diver in flat trim. I see comments about how good PADI/DSAT instructional materials are, and can only wonder.

Have you looked at the competition? TDI manuals are photocopied tat...even the GUE Fundies book is a basic DIY ring-bound xerox. In contrast, DSAT have put together a comprehensive, logically ordered, full color and well illustrated manual that answers every question appropriate at that level. Furthermore, it follows a system of study that most divers are already very familiar with (self-study, knowledge reviews and exams).

Personally, I do think that it is the best produced course-based tech manual available. It may not illustrate things as perfection....but it does show them in a progressive manner...that is what a student would expect to experience when they start off.

[battles2a5]

Because the photos are of the confined water skills training. Everyone has to start somewhere...and for most people entering their first tech program, they have to learn theses skils...develop their trim....and then put the two things together.

Or would you expect to learn excellent trim, perfect bouyancy and DSMB deployment in 15 minutes?

Really? If you can't maintain bouyancy and trim, then you should not be doing decompression diving in open water. Period. Blowing your bouyancy in mid-water when you have an emergency can have deadly results. I'm not sure if the DSAT instruction spells that our for the students while they are kneeling on the platform. Once you have the basics down, learning to shoot a bag and do drills while hovering in trim are a piece of cake. This way, you build the basics and then layer skills on top of that. Instead of learning the same skill three different ways. I understand that PADI is trying to differentiate themselves, but applying recreational techniques to technical diving is foolish, IMO.

Have you looked at the competition? TDI manuals are photocopied tat...even the GUE Fundies book is a basic DIY ring-bound xerox. In contrast, DSAT have put together a comprehensive, logically ordered, full color and well illustrated manual that answers every question appropriate at that level. Furthermore, it follows a system of study that most divers are already very familiar with (self-study, knowledge reviews and exams).

Personally, I do think that it is the best produced course-based tech manual available. It may not illustrate things as perfection....but it does show them in a progressive manner...that is what a student would expect to experience when they start off.

A color-printed, glossy manual that displays well does not say a thing about the content. But if a pretty manual is going to sell you on a course, then best of luck to you!

[DevonDiver]

Really? If you can't maintain bouyancy and trim, then you should not be doing decompression diving in open water. Period.

Thanks for those words of wisdom...

In my experience..when faced with a plethora of new equipment, new weight distribution...and a whole mountain of new task loading, even very competent recreational divers can have issues with buoyancy once they start tech training.

I don't accept people on courses unless their basic skills are up to scratch - but that doesn't mean they won't be buying me beers after the initial sessions for the occasion mishap.

The point is....by the time they will actually be doing decompression, then their buoyancy and trim will be perfected in the new equipment.

I'm not sure if the DSAT instruction spells that our for the students while they are kneeling on the platform. Once you have the basics down, learning to shoot a bag and do drills while hovering in trim are a piece of cake. This way, you build the basics and then layer skills on top of that. Instead of learning the same skill three different ways.

Yes, it does spell it out.

As you say yourself "Once you have the basics down", then adding further skills is easy.

Training is progressive. Throwing someone in at the deep end, bomarding them with too many new skills at the same time and overly task loading them is stupid.

Trust me...people have thought about the DSAT program..and they knew what they were doing. The original cadre of program designers and first generation DSAT instructors were all already experienced tech instructors with other organisations and crossed into the DSAT tech program when it was released.

I cannot say the same about certain other tech agencies...but that is just hearsay..

I understand that PADI is trying to differentiate themselves, but applying recreational techniques to technical diving is foolish, IMO.

Luckily, that is not what they are doing.

A color-printed, glossy manual that displays well does not say a thing about the content. But if a pretty manual is going to sell you on a course, then best of luck to you!

Again...luckily the content is good also. I have owned or read most of the tech manuals and books...and the DSAT one is good.

[Blackwood]

I'm going to avoid the discussion about whether someone who can't learn a new set of skills without kneeling on the bottom has the basics down...

Out of curiosity, what is the fascination PADI seems to have with slates?

And why aren't "stop calculations" part of the "dive planning" slate?

[DevonDiver]

I think the idea with the 'kneeling' is that it is confined water training in a pool. So that is easier for control and viewing.

There is no requirement that students kneel though...and I doubt many DSAT instructors would use that. View it as an illustration...not a rule or recommendation.