Wreck Penetrations?

[ermaclob]

So ive though about this a few times before, tho have never asked about it since it really didnt affect me till now. how far fetched would it be to get my foot into wreck penetration diving with a full cave cert instead of a wreck penetration class :headscratch:? I'll be doing my cave class in a 2 weeks though i dont live around any caves where i can just say "hay ima go do a cave dive today" id have to do a trip. But i do live close to some good wreck diving soooooo..... just wondering if i would be able to put the cave skills to more frequent use? I would imagine that its ok as full cave teaches quite a bit about "overhead environment" diving that plus the deco procedures training i got. It doesn't seem that far out of an idea to be able to plan a dive like that. Of course i dont know what i dont know so i figure its time to ask.

whats you guys opinion on this matter?

 

[SWAMPY459]

So ive though about this a few times before, tho have never asked about it since it really didnt affect me till now. how far fetched would it be to get my foot into wreck penetration diving with a full cave cert instead of a wreck penetration class :headscratch:? I'll be doing my cave class in a 2 weeks though i dont live around any caves where i can just say "hay ima go do a cave dive today" id have to do a trip. But i do live close to some good wreck diving soooooo..... just wondering if i would be able to put the cave skills to more frequent use? I would imagine that its ok as full cave teaches quite a bit about "overhead environment" diving that plus the deco procedures training i got. It doesn't seem that far out of an idea to be able to plan a dive like that. Of course i dont know what i dont know so i figure its time to ask.

whats you guys opinion on this matter?

I would also like to hear some opinions on whether some of you feel that a cavern or intro cave certification gives the necessary skills to penetrate a wreck or not.

(I suspect that a cave certification would give you the ability to penetrate a wreck, but a wreck certification may not necessarily prepare you for cave, but I'm only basing that on the fact that some cave diving instruction seems to be more highly developed than some wreck diving instruction. Cave divers constantly practice line drills, lost line, lost buddy, lights out etc., and I don't think most wreck divers really practice drills the way cave divers do... but I could be wrong)

 

[BDSC]

To me it would depend on the type of wreck you were going to visit and just how much penetration you plan to do. Over the years I've done numerous wreck penetrations off the coast of NC and all through the caribbean and have never taken any sort of wreck cert class. A lot of times it's nothing more than swimming in through one side of the wreck and easily out the other being able to see your way out the entire time. Sometimes it's a little more involved than that like swimming up stairways to go from one level to the next where some minimal effort would be required to get back to the opening or arrive at the next one but where there is always plenty of light. What I don't do is go places that would be so tight you need to take off your bc to squeeze through and then slip your equipment back on where you journey into the darkest reaches of a ship/wreck.

Everyone has to make their own decisions about what training they feel they need to dive whatever situations they are planning to dive. But to answer your question more directly, I would think you being cave certified would well prepare you for diving wrecks to most any degree you choose. Now if you are talking about the Andrea Doria, I suspect being cave certified would just be a starting point for that type of wreck!

 

[tomfcrist]

While I sort of agree with the response above, I would still see a benefit to an advanced wreck type class. Most current wreck practices were implanted from the cave community anyway, such as the use of guidelines. Almost all actual skills are the same, but a wreck diver will surely benefit from knowing the subtle hints that a wreck gives you concerning where you are in the wreck. If you are a mariner already(talking ships, not boats) you probably already have this baseline knowledge.

 

[Steve_C]

If you want to dive wrecks why not take a serious wreck course?

There are some differences, especially if they are natural wrecks. As far as I know a cave it not likely to have hanging wires and other entanglement hazzards. I would think that wrecks would have more sharp metal edges that can cut you, or your safety line.

 

[victorzamora]

What I keep hearing is the smartest course of action is to get Full Cave (since you're going to anyway) and then find an experienced Wreck Diver you trust to go over the differences with you, to go over dive planning, and to give you some mentorship. You might have the skills needed to get you out of (most) trouble, but you might not have the head knowledge to KEEP you out of trouble. There are tons of little tips and tricks that make you better suited to wreck penetration that Full Cave just won't teach you.

 

[Akimbo]

There's a heck of a lot more in both disciplines than gas planning, silt-outs, and navigating your way out. Cave and wreck divers share these skills, but only at the rudimentary level... not really all that different from managing soft (decompression) overheads.

Wreck divers don't need to know squat about geology or penetrations measured in miles. Cave divers don't care about ship construction, seamanship, caustic materials and explosives, and corrosion compromised collapses. Apples and oranges at any serious level.

Threads worth reading:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/378868-panic-experienced-diver.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/485101-diving-seamanship.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/wreck-diving/485747-wreck-penetration.html

 

[Jim Lapenta]

While they are both overheads there are some important differences. A good wreck class or cave class will be very clear about those and discuss ways to deal with those differences. Some of the skills do indeed transfer pretty much in a direct line. What does not always transfer in that same way is the knowledge as others have alluded to. Caves can be stable for hundreds if not thousands of years or more. Wrecks can and do change significantly overnight. A storm, freak current, misplaced kick by a diver on the way out could turn a familiar passage into an unrecognizable mess pretty quickly.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[oldschoolto]

Good thing there was no internet back in the early 70's... I did my first wreck penetration at the age of 15 solo in about 130' ... Double hose with J-valve doubles... Sometimes it amazes me that I'm still here after 40 + years of pushing the envelope....

Jim...

 

[Akimbo]

Good thing there was no internet back in the early 70's... I did my first wreck penetration at the age of 15 solo in about 130'...

The great majority of the cumulative knowledge presented in diving classes at all levels resulted from accidents that scared the hell out of, injured, or killed someone. Thanks to all the pioneers the preceded me, living or not.