Bad Experience - All 4 Diving (Phuket)

[BrandonTan]

What started out as a leisure dive trip, became a memorable one, for the wrong reasons!

In summary, we went for a diving holiday in Phuket on 9 & 10 August 2014. I am an AOW while my friend is OW. Let's call us AOW & OW respectively for this purpose.

Missing 1 Day, Asking Refund
The insisted on pre-payment, which I oblige since they said they only accept prepayment even though all my other dive trips to Phuket were all paid on the spot and all my previous experiences were pleasant.

The holiday didn't start well, some miscommunication lead to missing out 1st day dive, which I asked for a refund (or partial as I'm part to blame). I had a change of hotel, which I failed to inform due to very busy work schedule, and my other bookings had sent me an email days before the trip, so it didn't occur to me I had not inform the dive operator.

On this issue, they had twisted words on the several correspondences on this matter.

In short summary, I called them at 7.55am on 9 Aug asking where is the transport (only to realised I didn't inform them change of hotel).
The office personnel said the transport went to the original hotel and has left.
I asked her to ask the the transport to make a detour, she said the transport has reached or near the pier, can't u-turn.
In my email to them, I mentioned my failure to inform of change in hotel. Their personnel claimed that the transport waited till 8am, hotel said I had check-out.
In another email from their manager, he claimed that the hotel said I have yet to check in.


The Dive Trip
On the 2nd day (10 Aug), as an AOW, I am detailed to dive with a group consisting of Instructor/guide, 2 Master diver trainee and another fellow diver (at least AOW) while my friend, OW, was detailed to dive with another dive guide (instructor level). OW was the only diver attached to this guide/instructor, thus it's a 1-to-1 basis.

For this dive trip. It was full moon, or maybe also with the weather, the current was quite strong.

AOW had 3 dives (first being ship wreak, King Cruiser), while OW had 2 dives planned. Let's calls it Dive 1, 2 & 3.

On Dive 2, there was not much briefing by the dive guide/instructor for OW. I told her guide/instructor, that she is inexperienced so need to monitor her closely. In addition, after OW's guide's very short briefing, I advise, OW two golden rules of diving, (1) Always remain calm, never panic, (2) Continue breathing. And told OW, if she feels nervous, hold onto her guide/instructor's BCD if necessary.

On Dive 3, again there was little briefing by her guide/instructor.

My (AOW) dive guide, on the other hand, gave my team good briefing, firstly telling us that the Master Diver trainee will guide the dive while he supervise, and will take over when he felt necessary. He warned our team that the current (Koh Doc Mai) is expected to be strong, and if that happens, what should we do.

OW was only told briefly about the dive, there wasn't much mentioned. I was with her all the while. During the dive, my team descend first. When we were diving at the bottom, after awhile, we spotted OW being ALONE at the bottom. Her dive guide/instructor was not with her. After accessing the surrounding, my guide signalled to OW, to follow our team, pair up with him. I was puzzled why she was alone.

When we surfaced, at the surface, OW told me, her guide/instructor descend independently (faster) and OW was much slower in her descend, as she only has about 10 dives till date (inexperienced). Not all a new and inexperienced diver is able to have good buoyancy and able to descend at the same speed as an experienced diver.

Lost Diver Search?
The dive guide/instructor was on the dive boat when we surfaced. He was already dekitted (only in his thighs). Is this how a dive guide/instructor should behave when his ONE AND ONLY diver is missing? By taking assumption that his diver should be fine??

As a dive guide/instructor, it is his duty to ensure all his divers are alright, are together. Why didn't he ensure that OW is always by his side? OW is the 1 and only diver he was guiding. What is a buddy system for?

This guide's name is Laurent. In my context, he is IRRESPONSIBLE and FAILED in his duties. It's unacceptable negligence!

Such irresponsibility should not be tolerated. In my following email correspondence with dive operator's manager, Ray Sanchez, he had been twisting words constantly.

This matter has been reported to PADI!

Conclusion
Of my 5 dive trips to Phuket (2 LOB to Similans), this is definitely one memorable one.

Although they offered us 2 days of free dive should I want to go back to them, do you think I dare throw my life into such hands? I only have 1 life!

My last words to everyone reading and planning a trip to Phuket. It's your safety, it's your life. Choose to discount my ill experience or choose your own safety by opting for any of the MANY dive operators there. It's just not worth having another diver experience what we did. Nobody will know, if the next incident can turn nasty. At Own Risk!

 

[stevenl]

I will not comment on the practises of another Phuket dive operator here, but can tell you that Ray Sanchez is not the manager at All4 Diving.

 

[BrandonTan]

Thank you for your reading Steven. I can understand that as a dive operator, it is not nice for you to comment. Ray signed off as the Sales Manager.

Let me extract the email correspondences from Ray and you guys judge for yourselves.


12 Aug 2014 email from Ray
OW's Guide had been with OW the entire time of her dive. As I noticed she had not dived in awhile, I provided a “Private Guide” to take care of her ( 1 to 1 ) Normally there would be a 1,500 Baht surcharge for this service. But I did not charge you for it.

The “Dive Plan” was for OW and her guide to take their time going down, and then both of you join up with you and your Guide, Chart. This is what happened, as according to plan.

20 Aug 2014 email from Ray
A proper dive briefing was made, Laurent explained the normal signs and procedures, including if one got lost... look for 1 minute and surface, remaining there and not going back under water.

Your group jumped in and started the dive first, then Laurent and OW jumped in. On decent, at around 3 meters, Laurent’s “Reel” with Surface Marker un-locked somehow on decent, and the Safety Marker was at the surface. Laurent signaled to OW with both hands to stay at level, and watch him while he re-secured his Surface Market, she acknowledged OK. In less than the minute that it took to re-secure his reel, when Laurent looked for OW, she was nowhere to be found. Which was strange because there was very little, if any current. A lost diver is not a situation any professional would take lightly, and Laurent didn’t take it lightly, he looked high and low for over a minute, then had to surface to look for her, as per procedure of lost diver that was briefed previously.

During his search for OW, he could see Chart guiding your group of divers near the bottom, but could not tell who Chart was Guiding from his depth. Laurent continued the search for OW on the surface while snorkeling, but eventually went back to the boat to see if OW had somehow made it passed him, and got on the boat herself. He was very concerned when she was not on the boat, and made the captain and crew aware to keep a look out for a lost diver.

-----------------------------------

LIES!

See his mentioned :
12 August 2014 : The “Dive Plan” was for OW and her guide to take their time going down, and then both of you join up with you and your Guide, Chart. This is what happened, as according to plan.

20 August 2014 : Laurent didn’t take it lightly, he looked high and low for over a minute, then had to surface to look for her, as per procedure of lost diver that was briefed previously.

--------------------------------------

On 10 August 2014, it was full moon. Is there no current? Water visibility was bad, at most 10 meters. How did this guide Laurent snorkel at the surface and still see Chart (my guide) and our group when we were at more than 10 meters depth. Even if he did, he will be able to see that our group ended up with 6 divers (1 guide, 5 divers). We went down in a team of 5 (1 guide, 4 divers). Isn't it normal to verify if the additional diver is his (Laurent)??

Also, there was NO briefing about lost diver, OW was listening to my guide, Chart, do his briefing since OW was seated there when Chart conducted his briefing.

All would be divers to Phuket, make your own judgement and if you want to take your safety for granted, and leave it with an operator who is irresponsible, and twist words so readily.

 

[SGFundivers]

Sad to hear of your experience but would like to share some of my own experience as I was once a diver (not a dive operator yet) before.

- Cheap does not means Good. Remember that "Good things dun come cheap, and Cheap things (most of the time) dun come good" - Ever wonder why dive trips can be so cheap? - Imagine having 30-50 pax on a boat and imagine having only max. 20 on the same boat.

- Look for dive operators with TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) and VAT (7%) - Reason: With TAT licence in place, any complaints or incidents, you can make a direct claim to the authorities who will investigate and perhaps be able to make compensations to you, if the findings are against the dive operator

- The location of the dive operator/centre/shop is often mistook as the best location = best operator. Not really, IMHO. Remember that dive centres in prominent places, pay an exorbitant price for rent + overhead costings which in turns, get "funded" by customers.

Last but not least, talk to the dive centre before you come. Have lots of communications over email or phone... or get a referral from your local dive centres. For example, for those guys in Singapore, go to Gill Divers or Asia Dive Academy and speak to Eugene Kwok. He will give you good advice for free.

Sorry for my lengthy post. Just sharing

 

[scubasaif]

@BrandonTan, As a relatively new diver myself, it must have been a really scary incident for you and your OW friend.

However, in doing a root cause analysis, to learn from past mistakes, I think the excerpt below is it.

12 Aug 2014 email from Ray

On decent, at around 3 meters, Laurent’s “Reel” with Surface Marker un-locked somehow on decent, and the Safety Marker was at the surface. Laurent signaled to OW with both hands to stay at level, and watch him while he re-secured his Surface Market, she acknowledged OK.

Root Cause 1: The Dive Guide left his inexperienced buddy by herself to go re-secure the marker. The mail said about 3 meters of water only, but if OW had had an emergency, (e.g. failed regulator ) her buddy would not have been closed enough to help quickly. He should have brought her with him.

Cause 2: Since OW is inexperienced, for the Dive Guide to convey "stay at level, and watch him while he re-secured his Surface Market" in sign language, and expects OW to understand it is a little bit much.

Compounded by Cause 3: OW signalled OK to the "stay at level, and watch him while he re-secured his Surface Market" instruction. I think it was just an automatic reply. She obviously did not since she did not do it.

Leading to Cause 4: OW went down to join your group, leaving her buddy behind. She is now diving without a buddy, (even if she was with your group), and surely even as inexperienced as she is, she should know better than do dive without a buddy. I am wondering also if she did that not really intentionally but because she could not stay level and kept on descending until she reached your group.


Hope both you and OW stay wet despite this incident.

 

[stevenl]

surely even as inexperienced as she is, she should know better than do dive without a buddy

She was probably much safer diving with another group than aborting the dive and ascending by herself.

 

[scubasaif]

She was probably much safer diving with another group than aborting the dive and ascending by herself.

Quite right. But could have followed the dive guide up when he went up.

 

[stevenl]

Quite right. But could have followed the dive guide up when he went up.

He went to collect the SMB, upon return did not see her, his diver, any more. Did she see him? Probably not. Even if she did see him, and presuming she was some distance away, she would be safer with the group with guide/instructor she was with.

 

[BrandonTan]

- Cheap does not means Good. Remember that "Good things dun come cheap, and Cheap things (most of the time) dun come good" -

- Look for dive operators with TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) and VAT (7%) - Reason: With TAT licence in place, any complaints or incidents, you can make a direct claim to the authorities who will investigate and perhaps be able to make compensations to you, if the findings are against the dive operator

You are right on pricing. I do have to agree that pricing did influence me though not totally. I have been to Phuket several times, thus the price charged by this operator is somewhere around the price I paid previously, so it wasn't really the cheapest. One main decision was due to their location being near my hotel.

But thank you for the pointer on TAT. Am unaware till you mentioned it.

Root Cause 1: The Dive Guide left his inexperienced buddy by herself to go re-secure the marker. The mail said about 3 meters of water only, but if OW had had an emergency, (e.g. failed regulator ) her buddy would not have been closed enough to help quickly. He should have brought her with him.

Cause 2: Since OW is inexperienced, for the Dive Guide to convey "stay at level, and watch him while he re-secured his Surface Market" in sign language, and expects OW to understand it is a little bit much.

It's Laurent's CLAIM that the Surface Market was dislodge and he was trying to re-secure it. From my friend's account, Laurent the dive guide, went DOWN faster than my friend. He did not wait and go down together.

Words against words, but as a new and inexperienced diver, will you go down on your own without your buddy near you? I doubt you would. Years ago, when I got back to diving, my dive guide in Phuket (Dada from Sea King) was awesome. I told her that I've been away for many years and will need to be monitored. She actually brought me down slowly and when I got a little nervous at about 3m deep, we stopped there for me to stablize before we proceed down again.

Inexperienced divers doesn't do stunts and anything funny. Just like, statistically, it's swimmers that are more prone to drowning than non-swimmers.

She was probably much safer diving with another group than aborting the dive and ascending by herself.

When she reached bottom and left stranded alone, good thing my guide Chart, spotted her and took her into our group, he (guide and instructor for a DM during that dive) became her dive buddy.

It's for anyone to believe me or for the DC to deny and state otherwise. Liars be cursed.

 

[scubasaif]

Y

It's Laurent's CLAIM that the Surface Market was dislodge and he was trying to re-secure it. From my friend's account, Laurent the dive guide, went DOWN faster than my friend. He did not wait and go down together.

What I am saying is that even in his claim that he was trying to reduce the SMB, he had admitted to leaving her alone, which he should not have done since she is very inexperienced.