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I have been a psd for a couple of years now with a county dive team. I am also a FF/EMT-P with a local fire department. We take about 10 search and recovery runs a year, and spend a couple of dives fishing abandoned cars out of the local lakes.
I am curious if anyone has dove this Zeagle system and what feedback do you have about it. I have a good set of gear with a regular AL80 tank that I use for recovery operations. Because of my proximity to one of our reserviors, (less than 5 minute response time) I am interested in a quick donning easy deployment system. Our depths are less than 20 ft in most all circumstances so bottle size really isn't a factor. In 2 of our 4 body recoveries we had this fall, we were able to get a heart beat back on the victim. One was in the water for 15 minutes the other 25-30. Now as a medic i know that a 25-30 minute drowning is not going to be a viable human being, heart beat or not. But I have to think on the 15 minute one, approx. 5-7 minutes of that was deploying gear and walking to the site with it. You take that 5-7 minutes away from a 15 minute total recovery time and you are really getting close to the possiblity of making a rescue and not a recovery.
I have seen this system and had the opportunity to don it but not dive with it. Based on what I have seen so far, I think it might have a place and a use. What am I missing??
Let me add the fact that we do not have a dive team appartus or trailer. Everyone responds POV to anywhere in the county which is approx. 440 sq. miles, and we have 10 active members on the team. I keep my rig together in my vehicle but I would never consider it rapid deployment.
I actually got to demo one from our local shop. I have had a ranger for over 7 years and with the proper care it still looks like new. The rapid diver follows that high quality construction. It basically is a horse collar BC with straps that secure the tank to the front of the BC. Along with its quality construction it is also very cleanly designed with velcro sleeves of holding hoses.
Diving it is a very different feeling from a standard rig. Like anything after a couple of dives I was very comfortable with it. On the average I could get 20 minutes on the bottle with moderate exertion.
The biggest problem was finding an application for it. Our dive team has a trailer with six positions for divers rigs ready to go. For the price it did not give us any added capability. The total rig was just over $900.00. I asked just how much for the BC since I had my own setup I could put on it. $436.00. Personally now that I have a small car it would be cool to have it but the cost just did not out weigh the benefits.
I've never tried the rapid diver system but I do wonder if maybe developing a system for getting your gear on quicker (having it prepped, investing in a trailer, practicing a system where a buddy assists you in putting on your gear etc.) might be of more use. I have found that in an emergency, with a buddy at hand and my gear already assembled, I can get into my bp/w, have the hoses routed and be ready to go in well under a minute, I dare even say about 30 seconds. What really takes time is putting on the exposure gear. I don't really know whats feasible for you though.
Like some of the others have said, there are applications where they will be a benefit but for us they wouldn’t be.
Our gear is set up 24-7-365 in our patrol cars. All we need to do is turn on our air and slip it on. It takes much longer to get the dry suits on than anything else. From our arrival time to the water is normally three minutes or less. We also have some very deep dives right off road sides so we need to be fully suited.
I don’t think anyone could top Zeagle construction. They are built as tough as anyone can build them. I still have one that is over 20 years old and it was just 2 years ago when I retired it from the team. It wasn’t retired because anything was wrong, it went because the updated ones are much better. I’d bet it has at least another 10+ years in it. I’d never second guess Zeagle equipment.
If it is a piece of equipment that will work for you go for it. But remember to spend a lot of practice time with it.
Gary D.
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What ever you do in life do it well and do it safe.
I have a concern about these units and I am hopeful to learn from others. In this day in age where many are promoting the use of redundant air systems, why would we want to go "backwards" and use a "primary" system that utlilizes less air than the back-up? In many circles, if a diver has to go onto a redundant air system, the dive is terminated at that point. In the case of the rapid entry systems, that is when we begin the dive.
I foresee more risk than benefit using these rapid entry systems.
Can one really save time putting this unit on as opposed to a preassembled SCUBA unit? If "space" is an issue, can that be resolved by having less "junk in the trunk" or purchasing a high pressure cylinder?
If we consider ICS, do we really want the first arriving officer to go underwater as opposed to "taking command" and calling for additional resources over the radio and doing proper sizeup? On a fire unit, if there is enough room for SCBAs, spare cylinders, hose, Hurst tools, etc, ... can we not find space for a "real" SCUBA unit?
I don't have all of the answers and I can imagine instances where this would be a helpful "tool" in someone's "tool box." Right now I see more risks than benefit though. I will keep an open mind and hope someone can justify the benefits over the risks.
Good point Blades. I agree completely. If you don't have the room or the correct response model to get the right equipment to scene than this is a band-aid solution. If you short cut now....
Our team will NEVER use a contraption like this. Its gimick gear.
I was trying to be a kinder/gentler bridgediver as my history here sees me slamming alot of gear and pissing people off at times
I was trying to be a kinder/gentler bridgediver as my history here sees me slamming alot of gear and pissing people off at times
Brother ... It is hard to be politically correct and sometimes, we just need to say what's on our mind. I have always enjoyed your posts and I promise you, you have NEVER ticked me off.
I am trying hard to keep an open mind on the subject of "rapid entry systems" because there seems to be a lot of smart people who have embraced this concept. I would enjoy an opportunity to debate the issue and learn from them because if there is something I'm not seeing/understanding, then I would like to have it pointed out to me. I have had several people wanting me to help market this gear and my conscience just won't let me do that (yet). I am withholding judgment though until I have ALL of the facts but right now, my gut tells me this is not a good piece of equipment for Public Safety Divers.
...And to reinforce a statement BRIDGEDIVER made earlier, Brownie's Public Safety was the first company to market this concept, thanks to Steven Grasso who saw a specific need in his community. Steve Grasso is one of those "smart guys" I was referring to earlier and even though we are good friends, this is the only subject where we don't see "eye to eye" on. For use in a helicopter, where weight, size and "time in the gear" is a consideration, this may be an ideal system because the "real" divers are only seconds behind you. I am thinking of the offshore power boat races where the vessels have chase helicopters overhead and safety boats staged intermittently around the course. The system beats a snorkle but it doesn't measure up to a "real" scuba setup in most applications ... in my opinion. Brownie's sells other items that deserve consideration in PSD. Kudos to Steve for his innovation. http://www.browniespublicsafety.com
Last edited by BladesRobinson; February 24th, 2007 at 02:24 PM.
Brother ... It is hard to be politically correct and sometimes, we just need to say what's on our mind. I have always enjoyed your posts and I promise you, you have NEVER ticked me off.
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