Use of the long free diving fins while on scuba when spearfishing

[BoltSnap]

Are there any issues with using the long (all types including carbon material) free diving fins while spearfishing on scuba? I was told by one big name manufacturer that there is a much higher chance of these fins breaking where the blade meets the foot pocket due to the heavy weight of the scuba equipment. This manufacturer even told me that they won't warranty these fins if they break and they suspect that you used them with scuba.

Does it make sense to use them with scuba for spearfishing or one should just continue using the scuba type fins while spearfishing on scuba? What are your thoughts please?

 

[danvolker]

Are there any issues with using the long (all types including carbon material) free diving fins while spearfishing on scuba? I was told by one big name manufacturer that there is a bigger chance of these fins break where the blade meets the foot pocket due to the heavy weight of the scuba equipment. This manufacturer even told me that they won't warranty these fins if they break and they suspect that you used them with scuba.

Does it make sense to use them with scuba for spearfishing or one should just continue using the scuba type fins while spearfishing on scuba? What are your thoughts please?

That is a load of dung...Must be from a very low end mfg.

While using a giant stride entry is BAD for many freediving fins, whether freediver or scuba diver..due to over flexing the blade..the composite fins are practically indestructible, fins like the Lamborghini Gallardos of freedive fins, the Dive R freedive fins....which can be used with the Riffe Silent Hunter open heel foot pocket, allowing a scuba diver to use a traditional bootie ( though thin sole is better than thick sole for this). **Best way to enter water with freedive fins, is step out and twist mid air to a back flop..very easy to do......let the fins hit heel first, and you don't overflex the blade.

As to the actual swimming with fins, any good freedive fin will be massively superior to all scuba fins for efficiency and power, whether going slow, medium pace or fast...and of course a spearfishing pace is normally fast, and the freedive fin wearing divers are often 2 and three times faster than scuba fin wearing divers--and they do so without apparent effort....they cover more ground, find more structure big fish can be hanging out near, and this makes for more effective hunting than being the "leaf blown in the wind" like the typical scuba diver with junk fins like mares quatros, splits, jets, or complete nonsense like the Seawings...

The only places freedive fins will not be massively superior to traditional scuba fins, is in cave, or in technical wreck penetrations, where the fin tips might brush the ceiling and cause silt. Frog kicking is amazing with Dive R freedive fins...a huge push, and a 10 foot glide.

Walking on the charter boat is slightly more coordination intensive, but if you are a decently coordinated person, this is entirely a non-issue.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I've been using freedive fins EXCLUSIVELY when scuba spearfishing for around 15 years now. Freedive fins provide significant advantages in that they are more efficient than any other type of fin. You can swim at a steady pace with less exertion with better fins.

I have used plastic, fiberglass, and carbon fiber/fiberglass hybrid blades for scuba hunting. They all work well. When battling fish on the bottom, blades tend to get scratched up. For this reason, I tend to avoid wearing my most expensive blades (CF/fiberglass). 99% of the time, I just use a good pair of fiberglass blades and they get scratched to hell, but they will last hundreds of dives and many hundreds of miles (literally) of swimming in the ocean and swim training in the pool and freediving (of course).

The very large blade is more vulnerable to damage. the most likely place to damage them is on the deck. If a tank falls over on a fiberglass blade, it can be cracked. This is abuse, so keep the fins off the deck.

The other opportunity to crack the blade is when doing a giant stride entry.. Don't do it, step off and enter the water with the heels down, the blades will fold up, your ankle will rotate up and there is no problem.

The other opportunity is pushing off the bottom and smashing the tips or ends of the fins into rocks, reef, wreck.. Don't do that.. and your fins will last for many hundreds of dives. I have broken probably 6 scuba pro jet fins while hunting /diving and I have never had a fiberglass blade fail when diving. After hundreds of miles of swimming (literally - I swim 2 miles a week in the pool) the blades will eventually fatigue and begin to weaken and crack. This occurs in a progressive manner and is visible and when worn out the blades need to be replaced. Typically i will wear out the footpockets before the blades..

When freediving, I can feel the improved performance of a carbon fiber blade (that cost 2-$300) versus a plastic blade that costs 20-$50, but for scuba diving.. when you are pushing so much gear around, the difference in performance is harder to detect. Fiberglass blades, are probably the best since they are extremely strong and perform a lil' better than the cheapest plastic blades.

edit: I see Dan Volker says a similar thing about giant stride entries..

 

[BoltSnap]

Would the free diving fins give you sufficient propulsion at the sustained rate when using scuba equipment even when you are swimming continuously?

What is "bad" about using these free diving fins when on scuba outside the cave the tech diving scenarios if at all?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Would the free diving fins give you sufficient propulsion at the sustained rate when using scuba equipment even when you are swimming continuously?

What is "bad" about using these free diving fins when on scuba outside the cave the tech diving scenarios if at all?

Yes the real benefit is the ability to SUSTAIN a good swimmng pace with low exertion!

99% of all freedive fins have a closed heel pocket. This is less convenient to put on and take off than say a scuba fin with a good spring heel strap. however a closed heel footpocket produces less drag and it is MUCH less likely to get caught on fishing line or your shooting line. It is easy to get line caught on the buckles/sides of a scuba fin with an open heel.

So getting out of the water on most ladders requires removal of the big fins, with a closed heel pocket this is a small disadvantage. Diving in super cold water with thick gloves,, it might be more of a pain...

The only significant disadvantage of large freedive fins is when gearing up on a small boat. It is tough to maneuver. Often it is easiest to just do a back roll off a small boat.. no walking around, no opportunity to trip and the fins will not be stressed by a back roll.

In the water, the freedive fins are far superior.

 

[danvolker]

Would the free diving fins give you sufficient propulsion at the sustained rate when using scuba equipment even when you are swimming continuously?

What is "bad" about using these free diving fins when on scuba outside the cave the tech diving scenarios if at all?

I dive alot with Bill Mee and Matt Cain....they have Gavin scooters as do I. There are many occasions when a diver on the boat wants to dive with us, and i will lend them my scooter, and I will swim--using Dive R freedive fins....I am also pulling/pushing a big ass Canon 5 D in an aquatica housing...this is enough to slow down a scooter....With the Dive R fins, I can sustain the max scooter pace, for an hour long dive, even with camera...when Bill and Matt are down to around 1400 psi after an hour at multi level from 95 feet to the crown and 40 and inshore ledge at 55--I will be down to around 750psi at either 55 feet on the inshore ledge, or 40 on the crown--and I will call the dive.

No scuba fins could do this. No way.
There is only one fin type I have seen faster and more efficient than Dive R's....
See this..and you can spear with them also, as you can see in the 2nd half of the vid:
[video=youtube;aAxmFOLM3Ak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAxmFOLM3Ak&[/video]
I was following him with the Dive R's to shoot this, and this was the first person that I have ever tried to follow when using my Dive R's, that I could not keep up with...and he was not even trying....Scuba divers to him are essentially stationary objects--as they are to dolphins.

**P.S.
You can use a scuba tank and Bp/wing, with this Dol-Fin....I have video of Ron doing that...Unlike a traditional monofin, the motion of your body with this Dol-fin does NOT get interfered with by the scuba tank...But, the real application is freediving. The biggest point this should make, is how horrifically inefficient scuba fins are, compared to the very efficient Dol-Fin. And he can go very slow, with extreme precision, when that is the objective.

 

[BoltSnap]

Based on what you are saying, the only disadvantage of the free diving fins "in the water" will be when diving in the colder time of the year for us and having to wear either a drysuit or heavier boots which makes it difficult with the full foot fins.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I use freedive fins all the time for scuba spearfishing.
I'm using Picasso Black Teams which are a mid range full foot fin. We use them with 5 mil socks where I dive in 50 degree water. There are much better fins out there besides black teams but they get scarred up and beat up pretty good on rocks when coming in so I never saw the point of expensive carbon fins for myself personally.
One thing I can add about the use of freedive fins with scuba is that with the increased speed any drag from an ill designed BC will become grossly apparent the faster you go.
Anything protruding like huge wings, multiple hose sticking way out, dangling snorkels, big pockets, etc.
will cause you to work exponetially harder the faster you go to overcome the drag.
To minimize this I use an old style plastic pack or a freedom plate with a very small wing or sometimes no wing at all.
A quick story. I just got back from 4 days diving in Lake Tahoe. I did some testing with gear and drag.
I wanted to dive a wall so I had a plate with a 40 lb Oxycheq wing to offset a 7 mm suit. These are considered streamlined because of their narrow profile. My rig was simple Hog configured minus the bungeed necklace. I made mental notes of finning and gliding ability.
Then a did some diving shallower so I switched to a 4 mil suit and used a plain old Healthways vintage plastic back pack with no wing and a steel 72. With just the absense of the wing I found the difference to be remarkable with reduced drag and glide ability.
Now, I don't expect other people to take it to such an extreme of minimalism, but the point is, water is very dense and just the littlest things can have a huge effect on your slipstream. All this needs to be factored in along with faster fins to get the most advantage.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You can NOT wear typical full foot fins with a boot. They fit tightly and conform to your feet. This also serves to improve propulsion because of improved energy transfer. Freedivers using closed heel footpockets go barefoot, wear nylon socks, or neoprene socks, but anything with a sole (as in a boot) will not fit in a that type of fin.

I have worn two pairs of 3 mm neoprene socks in Maine in cold water and been fine. If you want to use boots, you will have to find footpockets with an open heel.. there are a few selections, but they are not commonly seen.

 

[danvolker]

Based on what you are saying, the only disadvantage of the free diving fins "in the water" will be when diving in the colder time of the year for us and having to wear either a drysuit or heavier boots which makes it difficult with the full foot fins.

Dive R with Open heel..but very unlike any other open heel foot pocket...this is the riffe silent hunter open heel pocket....I bought these so I could use a dry suit, but soon found that the silent Hunter foot pocket has an incredibly stiff sole...think racing bicycling shoes...and that for the medium or the stiff bladed versions of Dive R, typical full foot pockets sold at the best Freedive Shops, could not handle the torque of these big blades, and the foot pockets would deform so much that you would lose a great deal of efficiency and power...even though you would expect an open heel pocket to fit more poorly , the fit is exceptional, as is the power transfer...and these pockets can tak any amount of torque you can dish out.
I use booties that are more like Kayak shoes...the sole is strong enough, but not very thick....Thick soled dive booties is another stupidity for someone that desires efficient fins....have you ever seen a racing clyclist that uses bike shoes with a fat sole? Of course not, they are paper thin, but stiff, and this is most ideal for power transfer...a thick sole is leverage that actually works against you.
Some divers that have to walk through glass or thorns or minefields, apparently "need" the monster thick soles....I doubt you do