pneumatic or sling speargun

[scubachris82]

Hi,
I'm interested in getting into spearhunting, and I was hoping I could get a little help from everyone. I was wondering what the advantages and disadvantages of both pneumatic and sling spearguns are, and what difference the lenghth of the gun makes for spearhunting. If anyone could help me out I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks everyone,
Chris

 

[scubasean]

Hi,
I'm interested in getting into spearhunting, and I was hoping I could get a little help from everyone. I was wondering what the advantages and disadvantages of both pneumatic and sling spearguns are, and what difference the lenghth of the gun makes for spearhunting. If anyone could help me out I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks everyone,
Chris

From a newbie....but I've also been asking LOTS of questions, and have recently purchased a Riffe Metal Tech 3 with a track kit. [saw a 40" or so Halibut on last nights' dive, but was in a protected area and thus not armed... ]


The length of gun goes to accuracy, maneuvarability, and power(shoot distance)...

I've heard that pneumatics are hard to load...and they also have varying power...Each shot takes away from the amount of pressure contained in the gun used for shooting, and thus each successive shot is less powerful...

With a banded gun you can use one, two, or more bands for varying power, but a three-band shot will product relatively the same power a three-band shot did just a few minutes ago...

I look forward to hearing opinions from folks who are much more experienced than I...(which wouldn't take much)

 

[kaborkian]

Basically, if you plan to shoot anything substantial (larger than 5 lbs), then you need a band gun.

Polespears or slings lack both the power and reach to shoot anything but the smallest and least afraid (read Triggerfish and Spadefish only).

Pneumatic guns you must load in a single action, so the most power you can get out of one is the amount of strength you have in one push of your arm. I am considering a pnuematic gun for shooting Mangrove free-diving during my surface intervals...

With a band gun, you load 3 consequtive (sp?) bands, using either your hip or belly as a backrest, with both hands. This equates to 4-5 times the power as a similar sized pneumatic, and twice that if you get a longer band gun than the pneumatic.

As to length of gun, you'll never be sorry for having a gun that's too long, assuming you can reach the bands to load it. The longer it is, the more power and reach it has. It SUCKS to shoot a fish near the end of the cable length and have the spear bounce off. I've NEVER had that happen with my Riffe.


Most anyone can load a 54" gun. I would recommend a 60" gun if you're 5'10 or taller. Another benefit of longer guns is cable length. If you use a 48" or smaller gun, you will need 2 wraps of cable to have enough reach. On a 60" gun, 1 wrap is generally enough. Having only 1 wrap of cable simplifies loading without tangling up all the cable.

For brands, you can spend a lot now or a lot later. You get what you pay for. I've used Dacor, JBL, etc, and they are all about the same IMOP. I now use only Riffe, and am COMPLETELY satisfied. One comparison I like to make is between me and a dive buddy of mine. He has a 1-season old JBL Magnum XHD, and it looks like it's 5 years old. The finish is powdercoated instead of anodized, so it doesn't hold up very well. My 3 year old Riffe MetalTech #4 looks nearly new, with 4 times as many trips as him this season alone. He's also replaced tips, spears, cable, and bands (at least one item per trip, no less than $50 each time) and I've not had to replace anything but a cable that a 50' amberjack twisted all up. You pay twice as much or more for a Riffe, but once you do, it's done.

 

[SoCalAJ]

Get the Gun based on the fish you are going to shoot and the conditions you are going to dive in. Pneumatic guns are ok guns,,, the only problem with them is that they are alot louder underwater than a banned gun..Here a tip,,,The key to spearfishing is not the gun...its is the diver and his skill in the water. The quitness in the water, how the diver blends in with the backround, and the "eye" of the diver. I can take any gun,, pole spear,, or knife and come up with whatever you want to eat for dinner. Learn the techniques of bieng silent and blending and you will catch it all...

 

[DA Aquamaster]

A pnematic does not loose power with successive shots or over time but it does lose power with depth as the differnence in internal pressure over ambient pressure drops. And as ipartially indicated above, pnuematics are limited in their power as they have to be loaded in one stroke and also as the lenght of shaft that can be loaded (and consequently the lenght of the powerstroke of the gun) is more limited than with a band gun.

Bands on the other hand will lose some power the longer they are stretched, but since you start with bags more power anyway it is not a big deal.

The sentiment that you will never be sorry you have a longer gun is true only to a point. If you dive in limited visibility or are shooting smaller, faster fish at short range where a long guns loses in terms of manueverability over a shorter gun and where the extra power and range is not needed you will find your self overgunned and wishing you had a shorter gun. Personally, I don't know many serious shooters who don't have at least two guns to cover varying conditions.

In short, match the gun to the conditions and the fish and don't get hung up on "bigger is better".

Riffe also makes excellent guns and they are about as good as it gets without going the custom route. But even the low end Riffe guns are relatively high priced and may not be ideal for someone just trying the sport. Alternatively if you spear in a variety of conditions, less expensive JBL's that can cover the full range of conditions may serve you better than spending the same money on 1 Riffe.

So don't get hung up on the idea that you need a great gun to be a great U/W hunter nor make the mistake of thinking that a great gun will make you a great U/W hunter. Spearfishing is much like many other sports where the last 10% of improvement takes 50% of the time and money. My advice is to wait until you develop the intial 90% of peak performance to see if you are effective and happy before you spend serious bucks on the equipment needed to achieve that last 10%.

 

[scubasean]

A pnematic does not loose power with successive shots or over time but it does lose power with depth as the differnence in internal pressure over ambient pressure drops. And as ipartially indicated above, pnuematics are limited in their power as they have to be loaded in one stroke and also as the lenght of shaft that can be loaded (and consequently the lenght of the powerstroke of the gun) is more limited than with a band gun.

Maybe what I was calling a pneumatic isn't the same as what you guys are calling one...

There is a gun a friend of mine purchased before we knew better, and he had to pump it up before a dive. we had been told that he would get about ten shots and then the charge ould be depleted enough to be useless. It was my understanding that the pumping effort was pressurizing the charge to be used to propel the spear on its way...there was also substantial effort to load it...

Learn something new each day...

Can't wait until my Riffe arrives this week.

 

[kaborkian]

A pnematic does not loose power with successive shots or over time but it does lose power with depth as the differnence in internal pressure over ambient pressure drops. And as ipartially indicated above, pnuematics are limited in their power as they have to be loaded in one stroke and also as the lenght of shaft that can be loaded (and consequently the lenght of the powerstroke of the gun) is more limited than with a band gun.

Bands on the other hand will lose some power the longer they are stretched, but since you start with bags more power anyway it is not a big deal.

The sentiment that you will never be sorry you have a longer gun is true only to a point. If you dive in limited visibility or are shooting smaller, faster fish at short range where a long guns loses in terms of manueverability over a shorter gun and where the extra power and range is not needed you will find your self overgunned and wishing you had a shorter gun. Personally, I don't know many serious shooters who don't have at least two guns to cover varying conditions.

In short, match the gun to the conditions and the fish and don't get hung up on "bigger is better".

Riffe also makes excellent guns and they are about as good as it gets without going the custom route. But even the low end Riffe guns are relatively high priced and may not be ideal for someone just trying the sport. Alternatively if you spear in a variety of conditions, less expensive JBL's that can cover the full range of conditions may serve you better than spending the same money on 1 Riffe.

So don't get hung up on the idea that you need a great gun to be a great U/W hunter nor make the mistake of thinking that a great gun will make you a great U/W hunter. Spearfishing is much like many other sports where the last 10% of improvement takes 50% of the time and money. My advice is to wait until you develop the intial 90% of peak performance to see if you are effective and happy before you spend serious bucks on the equipment needed to achieve that last 10%.

I would agree with most of this, it's not way important to get caught up in spending all kinds of money. We do tend to shoot big fish, hence the "bigger is better". I've seen too many divers with smaller guns not get the penetration to keep a fish.

However, I stand by what I said above. Riffe is more expensive initially, but well worth it. The JBL I mentioned above happens to be sitting here next to my desk because I had to repair it for my friend after our last trip. He's only been out on about 5 trips this summer, and his JBL is showing MUCH wear.

 

[PapaBob]

I have owned both pneumatic and band guns. Please start with a band gun. Pneumatics are more complex and break down easier. They are harder to handle IMO. I now use a 48" AB Biller. I would not go shorter than this.

---Bob

 

[pescador775]

Novice diver, you didn't say what conditions and where you are scoping the hunt. A pneumatic is easy to swing and would be preferred by some for hunting in low visibility conditions. There are a lot of band guns around and even more opinions about what is the 'best'. I would suggest you find a good, used Biller 48, mahogany barrel, new style Biller, not the old Sea Hornet style. The Biller has a semi closed muzzle and slide ring setup on the spear which is more instinctive for a novice to use. The expensive Riffe is intended for experienced divers where the larger size stocks are more appropriate. The open muzzle of the Riffe is not instinctive to use and may result in more fumbling until you get used to it. Also, if you are a free diver, more and different reels can be mounted to the Biller. The Riffe reel is outlandishly expensive. Beyond that, there is a type of gun called 'arbalete' and these are generally referred to as Euro guns. These might be more readily available in your area. Most of these use only one band or two bands and shoot a really thin shaft. Picasso and other Italian companies sell these for export. A cheap Picasso can probably be self imported from the Spanish company, Dive INN. The Picasso Century 110 might be a good choice. These guns do not use spear heads but feature a wing mounted on the pointed shaft. In general, the Euro guns are aluminum tubes and do not have a butt extension making them harder to cock. However, they are generally accurate and fairly maneuverable.

 

[Mandy3206]

I would agree with most of this, it's not way important to get caught up in spending all kinds of money. We do tend to shoot big fish, hence the "bigger is better". I've seen too many divers with smaller guns not get the penetration to keep a fish.

However, I stand by what I said above. Riffe is more expensive initially, but well worth it. The JBL I mentioned above happens to be sitting here next to my desk because I had to repair it for my friend after our last trip. He's only been out on about 5 trips this summer, and his JBL is showing MUCH wear.

I can't say anything bad about the JBLs, I've been using them for 25yrs now.

My first gun was a Voit AMF gun, same as JBL but manufactured 25 yrs ago, I used that gun for more than 15 yrs and only replaced tips and a couple of shafts.
I lost that gun due to a break-in to my college apt. (shame it wasn't a big fish). If that gun wasn't stolen, I'd probably still have it!

When I updated about 8yrs ago, I found out that JBL was manufacturing the same guns with a couple of improovements, like the tru-glide, sealed stocks and the carbide reinforced trigger mechanism on the XHD models. One step back, in my opinion is the plastic muzzle over the metal one (probably for boyancy), so I bought one for spare and I still wait for it to break, no sign of failure in the near future.

The plastic muzzle, tend to open when using 3 bands (the outer band comes off the gun when you take a shot), but the fix came with the speargun, a tie wrap around the muzzle in each side between the outer and middle band so the muzzle won't spread and let the band out.

That gun is modified a bit:

Longer butt, 48" 5/16 shaft, 12' shock line, spinner head rockpoint or break away rock point, lanyard, 3 bands 5/8" dia 20" long.

Works great, may not be the best gun out there, but to me is exactly what I need, very little maintenance and catch the big fish too.

Me on the right and my brother on the left after a Monito dive 3NM NW of Mona Island. You can see the gun in the floor between my legs.

Bottom line, it isn't the arrow, it's the indian what counts!!