High-end point and shoot options

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TravelDave

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Looking for some assistance in finding a starting point of a few camera/housing options to compare. As background, I generally take one big dive trip a year and may do a couple of weekend trips as well. I have shot underwater "snapshots" for several years using a Canon low-end point and shoot (with the CHDK hack to shoot RAW) using only the camera's built-in flash. Not bad for close-up work, but not great. I've played around with a GoPro (no external lighting) also with decent results (I like the video, but I can do better stills with the Canon).

I'm thinking I want to upgrade my setup to try to get higher quality stills. I'm not looking to enter contests, but would like shots that can be made into decent prints. Given that I don't get to do a lot of diving, I don't want to go with anything that's either crazy expensive or huge and cumbersome. I'm thinking that I may be able to accomplish this with a high-end point and shoot coupled with strobes/arms. (I've considered mirrorless, but I'm guessing that may add a lot to the cost). I'm hoping folks can provide me with some suggestions that I can use as a starting point to start comparing choices. I'd hope to get something that:

- Isn't too big of a setup (not crazy difficult to dive with)
- Has full manual controls and white balance controls
- Can shoot RAW
- Can drive external strobes
- Would like to be able to mount the GoPro to the top of the housing.

Cost is a consideration, but I have not determined how much I want to spend. Will largely be based on what my options are.

Any suggestions of cameras/housings that I should consider. Once I have a few choices to use as a starting point, I can hopefully do more research to narrow down choices.

Thanks in advance for helping with this.

Dave
 
Hi Dave, you are absolutely right that the key to getting much better shots is shooting in manual and getting strobes. The compacts are getting better all the time, narrowing the gap between SLR and compact image quality. Get a Canon G16, or S120, or the new G7x. Get a machined aluminum housing (i.e., Nauticam) if you can afford it, much better than the plastic ones.
 
Hi Dave, you are absolutely right that the key to getting much better shots is shooting in manual and getting strobes. The compacts are getting better all the time, narrowing the gap between SLR and compact image quality. Get a Canon G16, or S120, or the new G7x. Get a machined aluminum housing (i.e., Nauticam) if you can afford it, much better than the plastic ones.

Thanks! Are two strobes essential or can you get decent images with one? I suppose the next extremely open-ended question is what are some decent choices for strobes that won't break the bank.

Any thoughts on the FantaSea housing for the G16?
 
Like rob said---get started in RAW,shoot in Manuel, & STROBE(s)!!!!(IMO the most important part of getting 'good' pics).........Any of the ones rob stated will work-----ESP---if you can add a WA lens to your budget.......Looking anywhere from 2200 to 3500 bucks to get a 'better' system going............& agree, try to go with an alum housing, much 'better' in the long run IMO.......

I would also add in the list of cameras to consider a Sony Rx 100 MkII(my next camera after my Canon S95 'gives out')

EDIT:......2 places to call & pick their brain about this matter--------Bluewaterphoto or Backscatter, there are others, a simple google ought to help you find 4 or 5 places to 'get started'..........good luck & report back & tell us/show us your final decision(s).........

---------- Post added November 21st, 2014 at 03:53 PM ----------

Thanks! Are two strobes essential or can you get decent images with one? I suppose the next extremely open-ended question is what are some decent choices for strobes that won't break the bank.

Any thoughts on the FantaSea housing for the G16?

Not rob here --but-- I just added a 2nd strobe about 6 months ago(was lucky to find a used 110a--they were Dc'ed about a year ago--).....Shot over 3 years with only 1........see my pics linked below......I am now in the middle of getting pics from a Cayman Brac trip up from 3 weeks ago---am finding I'm 'getting' almost 50% 'good ones'(with 2 strobes vs 1) than previous .........All the twin strobe pics have 'Cayman Brac 2014' in their album names ie the top row right now...

Also, the Flower Gardens trip pics(August of '14) was with 2 strobes---everything else from Cozumel March of '11 was with a single(1) 110a strobe)

EDIT II:...before Cozumel March '11 was shot with a Canon A570 with NO strobe, just the flash from the camera(& no WA or macro lens like I have with my S95)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/80825593@N08/sets
 
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Dave,

What you are going to find is that the low-end compact market has all but disappeared thanks to the ubiquity of cellphone cameras. As a result any point and shoot that you can find a housing for is very likely to shoot in RAW and have a manual mode. We have reached a point in sensor development where just about any camera released in the last few years can create a poster size print. I can't advise on size, I dive an SLR, but have never found it cumbersome underwater, it's neutral with a large dome port and two strobes, though it can complicate carry-on bag strategy when traveling. If you shoot in RAW you will only need WB for video, and you can attach a gopro to any housing on the market. All cameras with a flash can drive external strobes.

When I have advised people on which camera to buy, I've pretty much always started at cost, that is the best way to narrow down a selection of cameras, housings and strobes. I would not rule out mirrorless, this time of year Olympus (and other manufacturers as well) has some amazing deals on camera and housing combos if you look for them.

Alex
 
do you really need a "better" camera? maybe you just need a pair of strobes (and 2 arms and a tray and 2 fiber sync cables and a mask and...).

a set of strobes makes a huge difference.

can your current PoS do manual?

what areas do you think a new camera will be better than your current one? newer is different, not necessarily better.

my shiny new G16 hotshoe support sucks compared to my 6 year old p&s (no external non-canon flash control in continuous mode on the G16)

i suggest you do your upgrade in 2 steps. think through the scenario of adding a pair of quality strobes to your current camera. the strobes can always be re-used on your next canera.
 
My first major camera rig was a Canon A570IS in an Ikelite housing. I used the on-board flash with a difuser plus a LED light for video, background and focus. By the end I had a Sola 1200 on a loc-line as the video/focus/background light.

My current camera rig is a Canon G16, also in an Ikelite TTL housing (the one with the wired flash connector). I bought a Ikelite DS51 strobe, cord and strobe arm, plus the dual arm tray and a fitting for tray to loc-line. I have my strobe on the left, with the Sola 1200 on the right (using the loc-line). I love this set up. I also really love the G16, both as a great point and shoot as well as an underwater rig.
 
You have a wide field to choose from in several respects and haven't narrowed it down much here. One of the advances in the last several years has been the larger sensor size in high-end P&S models. That's been the case for several model generations, so you can buy something recently released for $500 or much more, or something new but a couple of generations old for much less. I regularly see Canon S110s for sale in bundled or rebated packages for effectively close to free, if you don't mind reselling the printer or whatever else is bundled with it, as an example of the other end of the spectrum. Variations on this deal come up all the time from major online retailers. There are cameras with even larger sensors as well, like the Sony RX100 series. From a practical standpoint, I'd say the major evolutionary forefront in the last several years has been in video modes for these cameras, not so much in still photo capabilities. Of course, most every new model has something better to recommend it.

For housings, you can spend $150 or $1500 for essentially the same functionality - it's up to you what other factors to consider.

I'd second the suggestion of budgeting the better part - if budget is at all limiting - for the strobes for the greatest leap ahead in photo quality. Even there, you've probably got a 3x factor range in the price of two strobes, depending on how much horsepower you want.
 
I have the G16 and Fantasea housing. Couldn't find any bad reviews before I bought it, and I have only good things to say about it after a week in Key Largo. Full manual, one strobe plus a video light, shooting RAW, not too big a unit. Any problems with my photos were all operator error. There is a learning curve...
 
Cameras such as the canon s120, g7x, or the Sony rx100 are top contenders for good wideangle, video, and good macro with an added diopter. Plus they have the smaller more affordable housings (as well as the smaller but still pricy aluminium ones)

A camera like the g16 is a very good underwater system for supermacro, macro, and close portrait shots. However it is less outstanding in wideangle and needs one of only a couple wideangle converter lenses which have to deal with the long zoom lens, and requires the use of strobes to get decent pics.

So to narrow down your choices probably make a call about whether you want great wideangle and ok macro (rx100ii, s120, g7x)
...or great macro and ok wideangle (g16, pany lx7, oly xz-2)

Any of those will.cover your other main criteria.

Also the fantasea housing for the g16 and g15 are good, they have all dials access, double oring, 60m depth rating, cold shoe, and a fantasea 67mm adapter for adding macro or wideangle wet lenses.
 

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