Digital Video Questions..

[willydiver]

Forgive me if I needed to ask this in an already existing thread. Are there any digital video camera suggestions for a beginner that is just looking at getting into some simple stuff? Of course the same old suggestions about best equipment on a low budget, good for underwater (with a housing) and dry land use etc..

Also, can you also use a digital video camera to take still photos or do you have to cut them out of the video stream? If there's an existing thread I need to check out, please just point me that way. Thanks!

WD

 

[jhelmuth]

Forgive me if I needed to ask this in an already existing thread. Are there any digital video camera suggestions for a beginner that is just looking at getting into some simple stuff? Of course the same old suggestions about best equipment on a low budget, good for underwater (with a housing) and dry land use etc..

Also, can you also use a digital video camera to take still photos or do you have to cut them out of the video stream? If there's an existing thread I need to check out, please just point me that way. Thanks!

WD

As long as you don't mind buying another rig later (cause you're gonna get hooked and the "inexpensive rig you just bought ain't gonna cut it once you do), you can get most any "cheap" (less than $300) digital video camera (yes - they do exist) & the Aquatix housing (fits any video camera) can be had for $359 new (maybe you can even find a used one out there). So for somewhere ~ $650-700 you can get started (maybe even cheaper if you shop carefully and are willing to buy used -- which is not a bad option to consider if you are getting started and want to go the cheap route). Mind you, this will only get you to a "always on" "no controls" type rig (you'll have to spend more to get that -- alot more). But don't discount such a setup. "Always on" aint a bad way to go and the lack of controls can be a way to minimize flooding (if you can live without the controls).
Most digital video cameras will shoot stills - but they will be pretty poor quality and in a "cheap" setup, you may not be able to access this funtionality (you'll need to have some controls to do so).
I know you don't want to hear this... but seriously consider renting a video rig a few times and learning what you can do with it. What you like and don't like... how much control you need/want, etc. I'd hate to see you part with money that could be spent just once on a rig that will satisfy your long-term needs.
PM me if you are interested in a used system. I may know of one that may still be available for around $500 (with an NLE). At least if you can minimize you initial out lay you can probably recoup some of it on resale and be out only a couple of hundred bucks!

 

[diversteve]

Forgive me if I needed to ask this in an already existing thread. Are there any digital video camera suggestions for a beginner that is just looking at getting into some simple stuff? Of course the same old suggestions about best equipment on a low budget, good for underwater (with a housing) and dry land use etc..

I guess it's your definition of "low budget" If you're really looking for "simple stuff", everything jhelmuth said....

I'd look for a Sony MiniDV camcorder if you're trying to stay with a reasonably priced option. You can get mechanical or electronic housings for it and you can easily capture video with most reasonably powered computers and inexpensive NLE's(non-linear editors). More u/w video is shot with Sony products than any other brand.

For under $1000 or less, Equinox or Ikelite are reasonably priced mechanical housing options. I'm not a fan of the basic seal and go "tube" housings any more unless money is really a concern as they're limited in their functionality. I wouldn't have said that till my last trip, when my dive buddy saw, stopped and filmed some tubeworms opening and closing in the current, without the ability to change to u/w macro focus, the shot wouldn't have been possible. If you can afford it, a good electronic housing from USVH or Ocean Images is an option for around $2000. Nice thing with electronic housings are that all the controls are in one place, so any camcorder you upgrade to will also work as long as it fits, and they're a lot simpler to setup and go. Most mechanicals have to be retrofitted if you change cameras.

There are sometimes good deals on eBay, but there's also a lot of old junk. Also Backscatter occasionally sells a good used housing.

And if you're going to film mostly in the daylight, above 60' or so, you don't need to get lights immediately, just a red color-correction filter for the housing.

Also, can you also use a digital video camera to take still photos or do you have to cut them out of the video stream? If there's an existing thread I need to check out, please just point me that way. Thanks!
WD

Most prosumer camcorders have a still-shot option, on most of them, the images are even saved to some form of smart media card. However most have a CCD chip that's under 2 megapixels. Some even as low as 680K pixels. So the image quality will be pretty low, probably acceptable for a snapshot but not much more.

You can also capture a frame from a digicam during the capture or editing process with most NLE's. I use Pinnacle Studio9 and it has that function built in.

 

[jhelmuth]

I guess it's your definition of "low budget" If you're really looking for "simple stuff", everything jhelmuth said....

I'd look for a Sony MiniDV camcorder if you're trying to stay with a reasonably priced option. You can get mechanical or electronic housings for it and you can easily capture video with most reasonably powered computers and inexpensive NLE's(non-linear editors). More u/w video is shot with Sony products than any other brand.

For under $1000 or less, Equinox or Ikelite are reasonably priced mechanical housing options. I'm not a fan of the basic seal and go "tube" housings any more unless money is really a concern as they're limited in their functionality. I wouldn't have said that till my last trip, when my dive buddy saw, stopped and filmed some tubeworms opening and closing in the current, without the ability to change to u/w macro focus, the shot wouldn't have been possible. If you can afford it, a good electronic housing from USVH or Ocean Images is an option for around $2000. Nice thing with electronic housings are that all the controls are in one place, so any camcorder you upgrade to will also work as long as it fits, and they're a lot simpler to setup and go. Most mechanicals have to be retrofitted if you change cameras.

There are sometimes good deals on eBay, but there's also a lot of old junk. Also Backscatter occasionally sells a good used housing.

And if you're going to film mostly in the daylight, above 60' or so, you don't need to get lights immediately, just a red color-correction filter for the housing.

Most prosumer camcorders have a still-shot option, on most of them, the images are even saved to some form of smart media card. However most have a CCD chip that's under 2 megapixels. Some even as low as 680K pixels. So the image quality will be pretty low, probably acceptable for a snapshot but not much more.

You can also capture a frame from a digicam during the capture or editing process with most NLE's. I use Pinnacle Studio9 and it has that function built in.

Yep... I agree with your comments. I'd only add that besides equipment, there's a great deal of skill to be learned and that can be done with the fanciest to the most simple rig. I really think that "seal and go" hosings are limited, but they can produce excellent results (just limited in what you can do - like no lens changes).

 

[willydiver]

Thanks to all. That's exactly the kind of info. I was looking for. We're looking at buying a digital video cam to get some videos of the new puppies. Having scuba on the brain, I got the bright idea of killing two fish with one spear (hehe). I've seen the Sony brand, low-end, cameras for around $300-400. It appears as though the housings, as they should be, are the largest investment. I've got a Canon powershot A300 digital still camera (3.2 MPixel) that takes great pictures. We've had a great time using the computer to edit and play with those. I was thinking it would be great to be able to shoot video footage and switch to a still shot for those "once in a lifetime" photo opportunities that show themselves underwater. The quality of the still photo function will be high on my priority list as I look at all the available cameras. Thanks again for the help!

WD
Coastal GA

 

[Mark Goodchild]

If still shots are a priority then I know two decent cameras which are mid range. I have a Panasonic GS-120. This is only around 1.7MP, they do the GS-200 that is around 2.4 I think. Both are 3CCD and very good value.

Sony do the very nice PC-330 and PC-350 which are 3.0MP. Very high for a camcorder.

I've not taken the plunge with the housing yet. Thought about these guys that make tube style housings for any camera and it has a very clever port which eliminates some image issues. But they are based in the UK. They can put in as many controls as you need and you can get one with the LCD open. Slight problem on the GS-120 is that some of the controls are behind the LCD so impossible to use underwater in a housing.

www.seapro.fsnet.co.uk

 

[JRO]

You can get decent stills from a camcorder. These will not compete with something like an OLY 5050 or any other dedicated still camera, but they are good for that "once in a lifetime moment" as well as those times where you just run out of film (that's how I discovered the stills on mine weren't to bad). I've actually found myself editing in some of my still shots into my videos (openings, closings, title pages, etc).

Check out this link to see the results...

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/648

These were taken with a Sony TRV-70 and a USVH housing w/no lights or strobes. (I even won a free t-shirt w/the crab shot) Not the cheapest rig by any means, I would guess it would be considered in the mid-range.

Hope this helps,

Jeff

 

[scubadudee]

Hi guys....Wonder if you can offer me with some advice.
I am using a video camcorder and Nero software. DVD burner.

But when I tried to make a movie out of it. My home DVD player cannot recognize the written disc.

I have used both DVD-R and DVD+R. Both of it does not work. Any recommendations?

Thanks

 

[ChrisA]

... I've got a Canon powershot A300 digital still camera (3.2 MPixel) that takes great pictures. We've had a great time using the computer to edit and play with those. I was thinking it would be great to be able to shoot video footage and switch to a still shot for those "once in a lifetime" photo opportunities that show themselves underwater. The quality of the still photo function will be high on my priority list as I look at all the available cameras. ...

Your A300 will outperform the "still mode" and any video camera you are likely to buy. The reason is that video, even good qualy video is about 500 lines. My wife's Sony PC109 video camera does not even come close to the image quality of a 3.2MP still camera. You can extract a frame from the video stream but the quality
will be even lower, about 1MP at the best and about 0.3MP if you have a low-end video camera. The thing about video (and movie film too) is that each fram does not need to be sharp to look good, motion blur is ignored by the eye and thehigh frame rate seems to fill in.

Have you ever seen a frame from a major motion picture shot on 35mm film? The image quality is not as good as with my Nikon shooting 35mm slides but then my slide look wworse if projected on a 50 foot screen

Even a $100,000 HD video camera "only" shoots 1080 lines of resolution.

 

[drbill]

I've been quite happy with the Sony TRV-17 mini-DV camcorder (can be bought used on E-Bay for around $300) and the BackScatter Top Dawg housing ($800 for housing alone, lights extra). It has created some excellent results. In fact my entire set of DVD's was shot with this setup and one recent viewer said the video "was the best I've ever seen on California's kelp forests."

Dr. Bill