Sexism?

[Jill Heinerth]

A major diving publication has asked me to write an article on sexism in diving. I'm curious how that makes people feel? Do we still have an issue with sexism in our industry? Are you sick of hearing women complain about unequal treatment? Are you tired of men saying there is no problem? Are there some reasonable suggestions to help women feel validated and men feel informed?
If there are any men or women that want to share any private anecdotes, please email me at JillHeinerth@mac.com.
Thanks!
Jill

 

[WarrenZ]

I think the biggest problem I have seen for sexism in diving is the husband boyfriend or just the guy who wants to show off to the girl pushing her aside so that he can "Help" her get her gear situated rather than letting her be involved with her gear.

 

[tomfcrist]

Of course sexism exists in diving. It would be implausible for it not to with as rampant as it runs in our society as a whole. This is not merely men discriminating against women, but it applies both ways.

The case of the husband/boyfriend insisting on hel0ping with the gear could be due to the concept of chivalry, or it could be due to the perceived inability of the spouse to "Do It Right".

Quite a bit of what is sometimes perceived as sexism is more a perception issue than an intended sexist situation. Example:

I sometimes volunteer at a coliseum to raise money for a charity. Part of my duties as a concession stand manager is to retrieve the money for the registers from the cash office. For over 6 months I would walk into the office and greet the nice lady behind the counter. Usually this meant saying "Hello darlin, I'm from stand 3"...yes I'm southern as hell. One day this lady pulls me aside and chews my ass for calling her "darlin"...She explains that she was a sheriff's deputy fro 30 years and doesn't appreciate being called Darlin, Dear etc. Now where I come from its just a matter of having manners and has no meaning of disrespect. How did we resolve this conflict? When I could finally get a word in edgewise during this world class asschewin, I told her "Well if you had told me your name 6 months ago, that is how I would have addressed you"... She told me her name and we have gotten along pretty well since. Perception is everything.

Are there some truly sexist pig assclowns out there...sure. They come from both genders, but are usually males. These are the same people that think they are the "Elite" in everything they do...diving, business, whatever. Which begs the question..."Are they Sexists? Or are they just douchebags in general?".

That pretty much sums up my opinion on the subject.

FWIW, If I were you Jill, I would be careful how you structure the article. It is a touchy subject in which is not easily defined.

 

[Octopusprime]

I think there is 2 perspectives sexism towards DM/pro or as diver/student.

personally I do not care if the instructor/DM is a man or woman as long as they are really good at what they do.

however, I can not tell you how many times an instructor is completely distracted (to say it nice) by a pretty diver/student. In my OW course there was a petite pretty blond and she got 3x the attention than any other student. Instructor went as far as trying to get her to take wet suit off on pool deck instead of locker room. It was bad. Needles to say it was the last time I used that instructor.

 

[dreamdive]

Hello Jill,

I think sexism is life and well in the United States. I specifically state 'US', because it is even more prevalent in other countries. Sexism is not just confined to diving, as a female physician I get it all the time. Mind you, I am being discriminated by other FEMALES! It is in the female group that I am being called or addressed by my first name when my male counterparts are referred to as "Dr. ....". I don't have a bug up my A.. about it, but I feel that I am being undermined by FEMALE nurses more so than male nurses.

That may be different in diving, especially in tech diving. As you well know, there are not a lot of tech diving women out there. If the numbers are still correct, there are only 33 % female recreational divers and maybe 10-15% female tech divers. Break that down even further into CCR or CCR cave, the numbers are even lower. Now personally speaking of course, I don't get discriminated against by other male tech divers as much as by male recreational divers who don't know who I am. When I was diving doubles, men would offer to carry them off the boat for me. My typical response would be: "If I can't handle my gear, I don't dive it".

I do find it amusing how some guys want to fuzz over a woman's gear but never offer to help another guy diver.

A lot of curbing 'sexism' has to do with how we women relate and react to it. I think women have a responsibility of taking care of their own gear! Unfortunately they are moving themselves into a "helpless" position by not taking that responsibility seriously and keep on depending on the "guy" to take care of technical issues or whatever. As much as I dislike this phrase "Be your own man", there is a lot to it.

 

[Octopusprime]

Hello Jill,

I think sexism is life and well in the United States. I specifically state 'US', because it is even more prevalent in other countries. Sexism is not just confined to diving, as a female physician I get it all the time. Mind you, I am being discriminated by other FEMALES! It is in the female group that I am being called or addressed by my first name when my male counterparts are referred to as "Dr. ....". I don't have a bug up my A.. about it, but I feel that I am being undermined by FEMALE nurses more so than male nurses.

That may be different in diving, especially in tech diving. As you well know, there are not a lot of tech diving women out there. If the numbers are still correct, there are only 33 % female recreational divers and maybe 10-15% female tech divers. Break that down even further into CCR or CCR cave, the numbers are even lower. Now personally speaking of course, I don't get discriminated against by other male tech divers as much as by male recreational divers who don't know who I am. When I was diving doubles, men would offer to carry them off the boat for me. My typical response would be: "If I can't handle my gear, I don't dive it".

I do find it amusing how some guys want to fuzz over a woman's gear but never offer to help another guy diver.

A lot of curbing 'sexism' has to do with how we women relate and react to it. I think women have a responsibility of taking care of their own gear! Unfortunately they are moving themselves into a "helpless" position by not taking that responsibility seriously and keep on depending on the "guy" to take care of technical issues or whatever. As much as I dislike this phrase "Be your own man", there is a lot to it.

Honestly not not trying to start a fight... I totally understand the Dr example, but in the diving doubles example do you find it offensive someone offers to help you carry your gear? If I was on a charter and had 2 sets of doubles + stage bottles I would love the help. Now I am male and I'm sure a woman would be offered more than a man, but I guess the question is that bad? My mom as a young boy taught me to open a door, get the coat etc of a woman. It is just being polite. As for would I do it for a man?Probably not .. but not because he is not a woman but many men especially tec divers would take it as an insult. Me personally ... I do not stop helping till everyone (including those I just met on boat) are packed up or have declined help. I'm a busy body and when the boat docks my gear is loaded up fast but I'm usually waiting for my buddy or someone else so why not offer to help.

 

[tomfcrist]

My mom as a young boy taught me to open a door, get the coat etc of a woman. It is just being polite.

Correct....It is usually a socially learned behavior. Offense is not generally intended, but is sometimes taken.

My question to Dreamdive is this....Do you feel the divers are legitimately discriminating against you? or are they merely following the social norm of treating women differently than men?
To me...Discrimination is saying "you cant dive with me because you are incapable of assisting me in an emergency"...whereas socially accepted politeness is asking you if you would like my seat in the cabin of the boat.

 

[divad]

I don't have any Women's Perspectives.

 

[Storker]

Is your perspective national or international? I have a strong suspicion that there might be significant variation between countries/cultures.

 

[Wingy]

Agreed Storker. I cant recall the last time any one said anything about my gender and the last LOB i did had a majority of single lady divers.