"Shadow Diver" vs "The Last Dive"

[SteveC]

Has anyone read both “Shadow Divers” and “The Last Dive”?
I found a glaring contradiction between the two books. There is a story that is told in both books, but is completely opposite.
The story in question is the one about the death of Chris Rouse and his son, while diving the u-boat. At this point Chris and his son are back on the dive boat. Chris sr. is dead but Chris jr. is still alive. The coast guard has dropped a basket and rescue person on board.
Now in Shadows Divers, the story goes that John Chatterton argues with the coast guard to leave Chris sr. since he is already dead and only take his son since this would get him to the recompression chamber faster. The coast guard argues that there are 2 victims and they are going to take them both, which they do.
Now in The Last Dive, the story goes that John Chatterton argues with the coast guard to take Chris sr. also, because if his son awoke and he was not there he would know his father must have died. The coast guard argued that they did not want to risk bringing the basket back down for a dead guy. John then counters this with his extensive experience with med-evac’s in Vietnam, stating that he used to do these while being shot at, and ordered them to take both, which they did.
This contradiction may not change either book very much, but it got me thanking how much liberty do authors take when writing a book. Evidently at least one of these authors completely made up their details. I doubt that John Chatterton described the story this differently to the two authors.

 

[rawls]

Depends on who you talk to. Gary Gentile would go with Bernie's account But all I have heard about Bernie Chowdhury is good. He did convey a different account of the event but he also thanks Chatterton, among others, for his input and he gives the credit to John and Richie for the ID of the 853. But I have no idea because I wasn't there. I'm going diving during the Mike Norwood Charity event in November. I will ask John and post what he has to say afterwards....

 

[eagerbeaver]

As far as I remember reading, the Shadow Divers version is supposed to be the more accurate. But I wasn't there either.

Trying searching on thedecostop.com as I am pretty sure that is where it was discussed before and I read it.

Cheers,

Matt.

 

[c555]

Not sure about this one, but I also remember another contradictory when John was trapped by a steel beam in the electric motor room. Shadow Divers said he moved the bar to be freed, but The Last Dive said he took off his tank to escape. Anyone else have any insight on this?

 

[ReefHound]

I have not read Last Dive yet but I would go with the Shadow Divers version for the following reasons.

The author extensively interviewed Chatterton and Kohler, "hundreds of hours" according to Kurson. He studied all available videotapes and photographs. He says in the first section that everything is true and accurate, based entirely on his research, and no literary liberties have been taken.

The author seems to have attempted to report details as accurately as possible. There is an entire chapter on Sources, detailing how and when he got his facts and resolved conflicts in accounts. He specifically addresses the fatalities and "close calls", including the deaths of the Rouses. He says for their deaths he interviewed Chatterton, Kohler, Yurga, and Crowell. All of whom participated in the rescue and recovery. He seems to have taken great care in double and triple checking sources.

The author also read Last Dive as a source. Why would he blatantly contradict an account in a previous book unless his sources were rock solid that it was otherwise?

The author says that the manuscript was provided to Chatterton and Kohler for review prior to publishing. While he did not allow them editorial control, I doubt he would submit to them an account that was a complete fabrication.

Finally, do you really believe the Coast Guard is going to allow a civilian, regardless of expertise they claim, to convince them to deviate from their standard policy? The CG is paramilitary, they follow orders. I find it much more believable that they would not deviate from standard policy regardless of any amount of pleading, as opposed to them being talked into delaying evacuation to take a victim they didn't want to take. I just don't think they would be willing to fly off and leave a victim on the boat, they are not medical doctors and are not going to make that call.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Coast Guard policy is they don't transport dead people. Doctors are not the only ones that can pronounce. Registered nurses and paramedics can also pronounce based on certain criteria. Coast Guard personnel are trained in that area.

Bernie knew the divers and dove with them. Kurson didn't know them; he interviewed them as a journalist. Bernie essentially wrote an autobiography. Kurson wrote a novel about a true story.

 

[ReefHound]

Bernie knew the divers and dove with them. Kurson didn't know them; he interviewed them as a journalist. Bernie essentially wrote an autobiography. Kurson wrote a novel about a true story.

Being a diver doesn't mean you are a better or more accurate writer. Having dived with someone doesn't mean you know about a particular incident (unless you believe in psychic osmosis of personal experience). Interviewing them carefully and recording their statements is what makes you an accurate writer.

I haven't yet read Last Dive but I've outlined my reasons as to why I have confidence in Kurson's account. Other than "Bernie is a diver therefore I believe Bernie" can you make a case where he was as thorough and careful in his sources? Who all did Bernie interview for this account?

Does Last Dive describe the CG rescuers working on Chris and attempting CPR on him? You don't declare someone dead because they have no pulse and aren't breathing. Else there would be no such thing as CPR.

Another reason I support the Shadow Divers version - Chatterton was an experienced Vietnam medic who had seen plenty of people die, had made many field triage decisions, and had learned to forget about the dead and concentrate on the living. To suggest that Chatterton would delay evacuation and treatment of Chrissy in order to take a dead man flies in the face of all his training and experience.

Did Bernie write a biography or an autobiography?

 

[Nailer99]

I was also struck by this discrepency between the two accounts of the Rouse's deaths. I'd love to hear from Chatterton, Kohler, the CG rescue swimmer, or someone who was there.

 

[ReefHound]

I was also struck by this discrepency between the two accounts of the Rouse's deaths. I'd love to hear from Chatterton, Kohler, the CG rescue swimmer, or someone who was there.

Chatterton has specifically answered this question before on the DSD boards. He says Shadow Divers is correct. So, I don't think anyone would want to allege that Chatterton is lying about it, and as for "disremembering" it, if there's one overriding them of Chatterton's life is that he is meticulous and detail oriented.

**********************************
I worked with Rob Kurson extensively on Shadow Divers, and Bernie Chowdhury interviewed me for Last Dive.

The Shadow Divers account is correct according to the best of my recollections. I consider Bernie a friend (I just spoke with him two days ago), and I think Last Dive is a great book, but he is incorrect in describing my dialog with the USCG.

The USCG could not leave Chris Sr behind according to their own procedures. A doctor needed to pronounce him dead, and until that happened, they could not leave him behind in order to give Crissy a better chance.
**********************************

He also adds "Rob Kurson wanted confirmation of every detail before including it in Shadow Divers."

 

[Dive-aholic]

You misunderstood me. Kurson is a diver, too. When I said Bernie dove with them, I meant he was friends with almost everyone on the boat that day. He got a phone call the night of the incident. He spoke with these people as a friend shortly after the incident. Kurson interviewed everyone years after it happened. I've also e-mailed Bernie concerning this issue. He based his version on a these conversations and a letter that was written shortly after the incident by one of the divers on the boat that he received. Nothing in my statement was meant to say Bernie dives so he's right.

As for Chatterton's training - being a medic and dealing with a friend's tragedy are 2 different things. In war you are numb to what is going on. Yes, you develop friendships with the people in your platoon, but the training kicks in and you do the job. On a pleasure trip with friends and an unexpected occurrence, things are a little different. His training and experience in Vietnam was over 20 years earlier. Things change.

I believe Bernie wrote an autobiography. They story is about the Rouses, but he uses the incident to explore his own inner feelings about tech diving and why he did it and continued to do it even after taking a debilitating hit that put him in a wheelchair for a while. Read the book. It's not as "entertaining" as Kurson's, but it's much more informative. Don't get me wrong, I like Shadow Divers. I read it in a day. It took me a few weeks to get through Bernie's book, but I got a lot more out of Bernie's book than Kurson's.

Being a diver doesn't mean you are a better or more accurate writer. Having dived with someone doesn't mean you know about a particular incident (unless you believe in psychic osmosis of personal experience). Interviewing them carefully and recording their statements is what makes you an accurate writer.

I haven't yet read Last Dive but I've outlined my reasons as to why I have confidence in Kurson's account. Other than "Bernie is a diver therefore I believe Bernie" can you make a case where he was as thorough and careful in his sources? Who all did Bernie interview for this account?

Does Last Dive describe the CG rescuers working on Chris and attempting CPR on him? You don't declare someone dead because they have no pulse and aren't breathing. Else there would be no such thing as CPR.

Another reason I support the Shadow Divers version - Chatterton was an experienced Vietnam medic who had seen plenty of people die, had made many field triage decisions, and had learned to forget about the dead and concentrate on the living. To suggest that Chatterton would delay evacuation and treatment of Chrissy in order to take a dead man flies in the face of all his training and experience.

Did Bernie write a biography or an autobiography?