Kudos to Bob Bailey - NWGratefulDiver

Many ScubaBoarders might know one of our outstanding members, Bob Bailey AKA [user]NWGratefulDiver[/user]. Bob's contributions to ScubaBoard include many insightful posts and thoughtful responses to any number of diving queries from a myriad of users. Bob has actually been here for a long time. As user #2872 he's been an active SBer since the beginning. Bob has even helped us out over the years with service as a moderator on SB, and helps out at the SB Booth at the NW Dive and Travel Expo. All in all, he's an outstanding member of the community.

Last week, Bob got involved in a pretty controversial situation. He stepped in and said something to a local hunter who legally harvested a Giant Pacific Octopus from a favorite local dive site. While the diver who harvested the Octopus was within his rights, Bob made sure to speak his mind, and share his experience here on SB and other social media sites about the incident.

Subsequently, with the aid of Scott Lundy ([user]lundysd[/user] here on ScubaBoard) Rick Stratton (Dive News Network), the Seattle Aquarium, and Washington Scuba Alliance on board. They arranged to be heard as a last minute addition to the agenda in a meeting already scheduled for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).

Thanks to an influential online petition (which received more than 5,000 signatures in only a few short days), the WDFW agreed to hold public meetings this winter to further explore the possibility of protecting the popular dive site(s) from harvesting of marine life from those areas.

From a few simple posts on SB and other forums in the Northwest region... divers got involved, and effected almost immediate change. The power of social media and sites like ScubaBoard is clear. Thanks for your devotion Bob.

[HR][/HR]

Here is the story as posted on KOMO News' website - http://www.komonews.com/news/local/After-controversial-kill-state-considers-ban-on-octopus-hunting-178042191.html

By Kristen Drew Published: Nov 8, 2012 at 9:33 PM PST Last Updated: Nov 8, 2012 at 11:42 PM PST

SEATTLE -- A controversial kill has prompted the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife to consider a ban on octopus hunting at West Seattle's Seacrest Park.

Under the current law, divers can legally take one octopus from the water each day. That's exactly what diver Dylan Mayer did last week, but the 19-year-old had no idea his hunt would cause so much controversy.

Angry divers took photos of Mayer holding the octopus and shared them online, and since then Mayer said he's received dozens of threatening phone calls and hate-filled emails.

Bob Baily has seen a lot, but he's never seen the diving community come together like it did in the past week.

"We're looking at laws right now that have been on the books for about forty years and no one's ever thought to reexamine those laws because up until now it's never been an issue," Baily said.

The Department of Fish and Wildlife is now trying to come up with a plan to preserve octopus in the area. Officials are considering banning octopus hunting throughout the state or designating Seacrest Park as a marine protected area.

At a Thursday Fish and Wildlife meeting, Mayor admitted his kill was a mistake and said he supports a ban

"I did not know that that place was so loved by the divers, otherwise I wouldn't have done it," he said.

Five thousand divers signed an online petition supporting a ban at the park, which attracts divers from around the world.

Fish and Wildlife is planning to hold meetings this winter so the public can weigh in on the options.

Below is a link to the video also posted on KOMO News.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/After-controversial-kill-state-considers-ban-on-octopus-hunting-178042191.html?tab=video&c=y

52 Responses


  1. KWS
    Yipee
  2. Truely awesome, Bob. Thanks for your efforts. And after all these years reading your posts (and learning so much from you), I hope to actually dive with you someday.! Keep up the good work!
  3. Great Bob and the sites need to be protected. My only concern is that this not expand to a state wide ban. They are not indangered. Hell I would never try to hand harvest one of those monsters and would just love to watch one........
  4. I'm very impressed Bob, thank you for showing us how its done! The critters of the ocean need more people like you.
  5. Bob, like Elena says, come on down to South Florida. We will treat you right. Nice going!
  6. That is AWESOME!
  7. Well done!
  8. Good job Bob. <br /> <br /> Now I shall sit and wait for all the "Bob is a mean old bully" posts.
  9. Yay, Bob!!! One person does matter!
  10. Kudos Bob! I would recommend that the names and photos of those leaches be posted to all dive shops and site operators so that they never have a chance to get away with such barbarism again.
  11. I suspect the term is present time consciousness; being aware of the manners and morals of the present time.<br /> <br /> Long before all you moral modern late model tube sucking bubble blowers entered the underwater world that area the Pacific Northwest held "Octopus rodeos" or "Octopus wrestling contest" for a number of years, beginning the the early 1950s and reaching it's peak in the mid 1960s. <br /> <br /> The object was to dive down using the new very crude and some what dangerous recently introduced bubble machine find the biggest octopus and horse him to the surface. The slimy Octopus was weigh measured and trophies were awarded for weight and the largest span.<br /> <br /> Those events were held a long time ago- the world has changed as has diving manners and morals and certainly the participants of the sport. No longer do the participants dive with homemade equipment, without instrumentation & floatation, or even allow their bodies to get wet or become cold, and what a diaster if a drop of water enters the mask!<br /> <br /> So what are we going to do about it? once again I suspect that the majority will be indignant and write a post.<br /> <br /> I am also indigant but of a different era with modern manners and morals. <br /> <br /> I wrote an letter this day to Honorable Christine Gregorie, Governor of Washington, expressing my concern about the harvesting of what remains of the once pleniful very large Washinton octopus by commerican and sport divers.<br /> How about you? Remain indigant and post and indigant post or change the law by writing a letter to the governor?<br /> (and signing a petition?)<br /> <br /> SDM
  12. Nice work, Bob. <br /> <br /> A most excellent outcome.
  13. Great news Bob!
  14. Bob's the best! Always standing up for what's right! Nice job, Kudos well deserved!
  15. Thanks Bob.<br /> <br /> No-take areas are a mainstay of modern resource management, as is protection for egg bearing, tending, brooding, etc., individuals. I hope the hearing results in a change in the rules.
  16. We have yet to meet, but I hope to get the opportunity. My thanks for all that you do!<br /> <br /> Elliott
  17. Right on Bob
  18. Well done Bob - P
  19. <blockquote><strong>KWS;6544344 wrote:</strong> Yipee</blockquote> <br /> So where do i sign up for the petition to stop the harassing and threatening of this<br /> diver who never broke the law but is being unlawfully persecuted?<br /> I'm all for preserving the environment, making protected areas etc, but they can't be put ahead of human life, and if the users here are so fanatical they'll threaten human life for political gain, what kind of world are they trying to preserve?<br /> You know,i think the speed limit in your neighborhood should be lower, so I'm going to phone and harass and threaten you, even though you obey the present speed limit! bunch of idiots.
  20. Thumbs up Bob!
  21. <blockquote><strong>Chaiyz;6572054 wrote:</strong> Thumbs up Bob!</blockquote> The diver was doing something legal in my state the post would have been considered hunter harassment. The way that this was gone about is all wrong there should be some type of reason to protect a game species not public sediment.
  22. Absolutely agree with kjw2547 and Dave Hendrick. The ocean is for all of us to use, and harvesting animals is a way of life on land and in the water. It has been for thousands of years, and eating what he harvests himself is SO much better than eating the chinese farmed crap they pedal in the markets. This bleeding heart crap makes me sick.<br /> <br /> Bob, you should be ashamed of yourself for harrassing a hunter legally harvesting game.
  23. For Scubaboard and it's "members" to support harrassment of another individual who has done nothing illegal or immoral is reprehensible. Shame on all of you.<br /> <br /> Kevin Fleming
  24. Let's hope a legislator will step up and sponsor a bill for this. Next comes the initiative if no legislator steps up. Good luck Bob!
  25. <span style="color: navy;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">Balance is the key. As a spearfishermen, I agree that it is selfish to NOT practise restraint when harvesting in an area also enjoyed by SCUBA divers; mere legal compliance is no longer the issue here. But then I don’t take kindly to bubble blowers throwing a hissy fit if I spear a decent gamefish either!</span></span></span>
  26. I am going to leave this page. While Bob may do good things for the community, The fact that <strong>this community endorses threatening a 19 year old that did something LEGALLY is more upsetting than the other issue.</strong> Yes you changed this kids mind (even if it was with intimidation), but condoning such action is not what the community should be about. I do not wish to have any part of it. Good Bye.
  27. Funny how a stream of users have made their first post within a single day, dragging up a lot of petty arguments that were better buried back in the original thread.<br /> <br /> For you would-be defenders: you aren't doing your subject any favors dragging this stuff back up, holding him up as a righteous example of law-abiding cleanliness. Bob didn't threaten anyone, all he did was relate in public something he witnessed in a public place. The behavior he witnessed was distasteful, and when some of the other less than pleasant ways the young man in question comported himself started showing up in the spotlight, there was a lot of negative reaction to the public image he went to the trouble of making for himself.<br /> <br /> The young man in question has since apparently made steps to become part of his society rather than wipe his tail with it, I'd say it's a good opportunity to let the past go and let him get on with that. To bring this back up will just force the other camp to keep pointing out why he came under such attack in the first place.

  28. <blockquote><strong>David Hedrick;6571655 wrote:</strong> So where do i sign up for the petition to stop the harassing and threatening of this<br /> diver who never broke the law but is being unlawfully persecuted?<br /> I'm all for preserving the environment, making protected areas etc, but they can't be put ahead of human life, and if the users here are so fanatical they'll threaten human life for political gain, what kind of world are they trying to preserve?<br /> You know,i think the speed limit in your neighborhood should be lower, so I'm going to phone and harass and threaten you, even though you obey the present speed limit! bunch of idiots.</blockquote> <br /> <br /> <br /> Yep, knew this was going to happen. Always the haters...<br /> <br /> Why rain on the parade and at least be happy that one corner of the world might receive protection? Geeeze!!<span style="color: Silver;"><br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 11px;">---------- Post added December 10th, 2012 at 01:37 PM ----------</span><br /> <br /> </span><blockquote><strong>MudPup;6573476 wrote:</strong> Absolutely agree with kjw2547 and Dave Hendrick. The ocean is for all of us to use, and harvesting animals is a way of life on land and in the water. It has been for thousands of years, and eating what he harvests himself is SO much better than eating the chinese farmed crap they pedal in the markets. This bleeding heart crap makes me sick.<br /> <br /> Bob, you should be ashamed of yourself for harrassing a hunter legally harvesting game.</blockquote> <br /> Of COURSE you agree. Judging from your post count, you all joined just to say that. Welcome to the forum, I just hope you learn a little while you are here.<span style="color: Silver;"><br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 11px;">---------- Post added December 10th, 2012 at 01:38 PM ----------</span><br /> <br /> </span><blockquote><strong>scubadad2;6573961 wrote:</strong> I am going to leave this page. While Bob may do good things for the community, The fact that <strong>this community endorses threatening a 19 year old that did something LEGALLY is more upsetting than the other issue.</strong> Yes you changed this kids mind (even if it was with intimidation), but condoning such action is not what the community should be about. I do not wish to have any part of it. Good Bye.</blockquote> <br /> <br /> Bye!!
  29. <blockquote><strong>kotik;6574002 wrote:</strong> Funny how a stream of users have made their first post within a single day, dragging up a lot of petty arguments that were better buried back in the original thread.<br /> <br /> For you would-be defenders: you aren't doing your subject any favors dragging this stuff back up, holding him up as a righteous example of law-abiding cleanliness. Bob didn't threaten anyone, all he did was relate in public something he witnessed in a public place. The behavior he witnessed was distasteful, and when some of the other less than pleasant ways the young man in question comported himself started showing up in the spotlight, there was a lot of negative reaction to the public image he went to the trouble of making for himself.<br /> <br /> The young man in question has since apparently made steps to become part of his society rather than wipe his tail with it, I'd say it's a good opportunity to let the past go and let him get on with that. To bring this back up will just force the other camp to keep pointing out why he came under such attack in the first place.</blockquote> <br /> I am a freedive spearfisher. Tho I am personally opposed to spearfishing on scuba, and I choose not to take octopus of any kind because I just think they are too cool, and I have seen other freedivers boasting or behaving in what I consider un-sportsman like behavior, if they are not doing anything illegal, why drag them thru the mud? Why lambast them in a public manor? Leave the poor kid alone or keep it between you and him. Tell him how you feel and walk away. If you want the octopus to be protected, start a scientific study that proves they need protection and present your argument on it's merits, not sensationalism. I think eating factory farmed animals is inhumane, I don't think Bob would like me to snap a bunch of pictures of him chowing down on a big fat hamburger and putting it up on a PETA website, and starting a campaign to ban factory farming using his name and images for posters and what not.
  30. <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574119 wrote:</strong> I am a freedive spearfisher. Tho I am personally opposed to spearfishing on scuba, and I choose not to take octopus of any kind because I just think they are too cool, and I have seen other freedivers boasting or behaving in what I consider un-sportsman like behavior, if they are not doing anything illegal, why drag them thru the mud? Why lambast them in a public manor? Leave the poor kid alone or keep it between you and him. Tell him how you feel and walk away. If you want the octopus to be protected, start a scientific study that proves they need protection and present your argument on it's merits, not sensationalism. I think eating factory farmed animals is inhumane, I don't think Bob would like me to snap a bunch of pictures of him chowing down on a big fat hamburger and putting it up on a PETA website, and starting a campaign to ban factory farming using his name and images for posters and what not.</blockquote> <br /> not intending to start yet another argument on this subject, but I think your analogy is a little off... Many people eat big fat hamburgers every day, but nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day and it wasn't just one person's view that the harvesting shouldn't be done at this site, it was the view of almost the entire PNW diving community.
  31. This is completely ludicrous. To all the protesters out there...have you ever ate a chicken sandwich? Big Mac? Thick juicy steak? Sushi? Fish filet? I have some bad news for you types, call it harsh reality if you will. These creatures were not allowed to die a nice peaceful death of natural causes so their flesh could nourish your bodies and assure your survival. They were slaughtered at a commercial processing facility by the most expeditious means possible. Again, reality warning here, this involved a sharp blow to the head followed immediately by severing the corotid artery so the still beating heart can pump most of the blood from the carcass. This very necessary step prevents the blood from pooling in the flesh which can cause off tastes, bad color and affects the keeping qualities of the meat. That applies to larger animals but poultry is handled a little differently. They skip the blow to the head. They simply hang the live chickens/turkeys by their feet and slit their throat immediately or simply lp off their heads. Again, this allows the still beating heart to flush the carcass of blood as they flutter helplessly. I'm not trying to "be mean" or "gross anyone out" but introduce the ignorant to the realities of their daily combo meals. We country folk raise our own cattle and hogs and butcher them every fall. We choose to raise our own meat under conditions of our own choosing rather than a sterile, detached purchase at the grocer. So why the outcry for the octopus? Because it's an unusual creature? Because it's deemed "cute?" Food prejudices perhaps? Please understand that our Asian, Japanese and even Mediterranian cousins hold no such qualms and highly appreciate this most advanced of mollusks for the gastronomic delight that it is. Does the thought of consuming dog flesh abhor you? Koreans relish such activity. Do you appreciate a good BBQ brisket sandwich? A Hindu would be appalled at such a suggstion! My point is, the man was engaged in a perfectly legal and regulated activity. He broke no laws and hurt no one. I've no doubt the state did thorough research and determined that there were sufficient Giant octopus to sustain a reasonable harvest of one per day, per diver. These quotas are constantly monotored and adjusted to maintain a healthy, sustainable population. Modern game management strategies and techniques represent a rare bright spot in man's attempt at manipulating the natural world. White-tailed deer are a good example but there are many others. Through sound management and sustainable harvest practices the deer population has recovered and exceeded that of just a hundred years ago many times over. Please understand folks, we are already regulated far too much. Do not let your feelings and emotions dictate not only the actions of others but laws and regulations that are already in place and are accomplishing their stated goals. If you are a vegetarian or whatnot then you do have a leg to stand on, albeit a small one. I respect your right to choose not to eat animal flesh but do not respect any insistance on imposing your views on others, any more than someone imposing their religious views or moral views upon others. But for a meater-eater to decry and protest the legal harvest of fish and game is the very height of hypocrisy. And to Bob and others of his ilk, if the scene of the harvest bothered you, I'm sorry that you had to witness it. But I assure you it was far more benign and "fair" than the ribeye steak or chicken sandwich that you had for lunch. When hunting, at least the game has a sporting chance. You must do so on their turf and in their environment. That chicken or cow had no chance in hell.<span style="color: Silver;"><br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 11px;">---------- Post added December 10th, 2012 at 04:05 PM ----------</span><br /> <br /> </span>This is completely ludicrous. To all the protesters out there...have you ever ate a chicken sandwich? Big Mac? Thick juicy steak? Sushi? Fish filet? I have some bad news for you types, call it harsh reality if you will. These creatures were not allowed to die a nice peaceful death of natural causes so their flesh could nourish your bodies and assure your survival. They were slaughtered at a commercial processing facility by the most expeditious means possible. Again, reality warning here, this involved a sharp blow to the head followed immediately by severing the corotid artery so the still beating heart can pump most of the blood from the carcass. This very necessary step prevents the blood from pooling in the flesh which can cause off tastes, bad color and affects the keeping qualities of the meat. That applies to larger animals but poultry is handled a little differently. They skip the blow to the head. They simply hang the live chickens/turkeys by their feet and slit their throat immediately or simply lp off their heads. Again, this allows the still beating heart to flush the carcass of blood as they flutter helplessly. I'm not trying to "be mean" or "gross anyone out" but introduce the ignorant to the realities of their daily combo meals. We country folk raise our own cattle and hogs and butcher them every fall. We choose to raise our own meat under conditions of our own choosing rather than a sterile, detached purchase at the grocer. So why the outcry for the octopus? Because it's an unusual creature? Because it's deemed "cute?" Food prejudices perhaps? Please understand that our Asian, Japanese and even Mediterranian cousins hold no such qualms and highly appreciate this most advanced of mollusks for the gastronomic delight that it is. Does the thought of consuming dog flesh abhor you? Koreans relish such activity. Do you appreciate a good BBQ brisket sandwich? A Hindu would be appalled at such a suggstion! My point is, the man was engaged in a perfectly legal and regulated activity. He broke no laws and hurt no one. I've no doubt the state did thorough research and determined that there were sufficient Giant octopus to sustain a reasonable harvest of one per day, per diver. These quotas are constantly monotored and adjusted to maintain a healthy, sustainable population. Modern game management strategies and techniques represent a rare bright spot in man's attempt at manipulating the natural world. White-tailed deer are a good example but there are many others. Through sound management and sustainable harvest practices the deer population has recovered and exceeded that of just a hundred years ago many times over. Please understand folks, we are already regulated far too much. Do not let your feelings and emotions dictate not only the actions of others but laws and regulations that are already in place and are accomplishing their stated goals. If you are a vegetarian or whatnot then you do have a leg to stand on, albeit a small one. I respect your right to choose not to eat animal flesh but do not respect any insistance on imposing your views on others, any more than someone imposing their religious views or moral views upon others. But for a meater-eater to decry and protest the legal harvest of fish and game is the very height of hypocrisy. And to Bob and others of his ilk, if the scene of the harvest bothered you, I'm sorry that you had to witness it. But I assure you it was far more benign and "fair" than the ribeye steak or chicken sandwich that you had for lunch. When hunting, at least the game has a sporting chance. You must do so on their turf and in their environment. That chicken or cow had no chance in hell.
  32. <blockquote><strong>Aceboyd;6574135 wrote:</strong> This is completely ludicrous. To all the protesters out there...have you ever ate a chicken sandwich? Big Mac? Thick juicy steak? Sushi? Fish filet? I have some bad news for you types, call it harsh reality if you will. These creatures were not allowed to die a nice peaceful death of natural causes so their flesh could nourish your bodies and assure your survival. They were slaughtered at a commercial processing facility by the most expeditious means possible. Again, reality warning here, this involved a sharp blow to the head followed immediately by severing the corotid artery so the still beating heart can pump most of the blood from the carcass. This very necessary step prevents the blood from pooling in the flesh which can cause off tastes, bad color and affects the keeping qualities of the meat. That applies to larger animals but poultry is handled a little differently. They skip the blow to the head. They simply hang the live chickens/turkeys by their feet and slit their throat immediately or simply lp off their heads. Again, this allows the still beating heart to flush the carcass of blood as they flutter helplessly. I'm not trying to "be mean" or "gross anyone out" but introduce the ignorant to the realities of their daily combo meals. We country folk raise our own cattle and hogs and butcher them every fall. We choose to raise our own meat under conditions of our own choosing rather than a sterile, detached purchase at the grocer. So why the outcry for the octopus? Because it's an unusual creature? Because it's deemed "cute?" Food prejudices perhaps? Please understand that our Asian, Japanese and even Mediterranian cousins hold no such qualms and highly appreciate this most advanced of mollusks for the gastronomic delight that it is. Does the thought of consuming dog flesh abhor you? Koreans relish such activity. Do you appreciate a good BBQ brisket sandwich? A Hindu would be appalled at such a suggstion! My point is, the man was engaged in a perfectly legal and regulated activity. He broke no laws and hurt no one. I've no doubt the state did thorough research and determined that there were sufficient Giant octopus to sustain a reasonable harvest of one per day, per diver. These quotas are constantly monotored and adjusted to maintain a healthy, sustainable population. Modern game management strategies and techniques represent a rare bright spot in man's attempt at manipulating the natural world. White-tailed deer are a good example but there are many others. Through sound management and sustainable harvest practices the deer population has recovered and exceeded that of just a hundred years ago many times over. Please understand folks, we are already regulated far too much. Do not let your feelings and emotions dictate not only the actions of others but laws and regulations that are already in place and are accomplishing their stated goals. If you are a vegetarian or whatnot then you do have a leg to stand on, albeit a small one. I respect your right to choose not to eat animal flesh but do not respect any insistance on imposing your views on others, any more than someone imposing their religious views or moral views upon others. But for a meater-eater to decry and protest the legal harvest of fish and game is the very height of hypocrisy. And to Bob and others of his ilk, if the scene of the harvest bothered you, I'm sorry that you had to witness it. But I assure you it was far more benign and "fair" than the ribeye steak or chicken sandwich that you had for lunch. When hunting, at least the game has a sporting chance. You must do so on their turf and in their environment. That chicken or cow had no chance in hell.<span style="color: Silver;"><br /> </span></blockquote> <br /> I don't think any "protester" is arguing that hunting octopus should be banned, merely that there is a time and place for it.
  33. <blockquote><strong>nimoh;6574129 wrote:</strong> but nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day</blockquote> <br /> I am curious as to how you came to develop that statement.
  34. <blockquote><strong>pensacolaracer;6574171 wrote:</strong> I am curious as to how you came to develop that statement.</blockquote> <br /> it was in the original story, but I probably could have paraphrased it better.
  35. <blockquote><strong>Aceboyd;6574135 wrote:</strong> Waah! Someone on SpearBoard brought it to my attention that someone didn't like some hunting, said so, and now part of the ocean might be further regulated because lots of people agreed with them! Waah! Waah!</blockquote> <br /> Forgive my paraphrasing of your ridiculously long, rambling post.<br /> <br /> Speaking only for myself, I don't care whether you or anyone else hunts (I do), but I have no problem trying to ensure you do it when, where, and in a manner that suits me. If that's a vote I win, so much the better. If not, there's always tomorrow. You can feel free to do the same.<br /> <br /> This situation in a nutshell: two young males did something legal that upset a sizable portion of the divers in their locality. Bob and the local dive shops learned of this, and did something legal that upset a sizable portion of irrelevant spearos largely unrelated to the PNW. A few internet Rambos on both sides made posts that might cross the line from legal speech to illegal true threats. <br /> <br /> Now, all actually involved seem to have resolved their differences, and nobody I've seen here has supported <em>actual threats </em>against either of the two who took the octo. All they've done is support Bob and others' rights to do whatever they see fit within the letter of the law. And since the letter of the law is what gives you such a chubby for the young hunters here, you should be all about Bob's freedom to act within the law. Of course, you're a hypocrite, so you aren't :)
  36. <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574119 wrote:</strong> I am a freedive spearfisher. Tho I am personally opposed to spearfishing on scuba, and I choose not to take octopus of any kind because I just think they are too cool, and I have seen other freedivers boasting or behaving in what I consider un-sportsman like behavior, if they are not doing anything illegal, why drag them thru the mud? Why lambast them in a public manor? Leave the poor kid alone or keep it between you and him. Tell him how you feel and walk away. If you want the octopus to be protected, start a scientific study that proves they need protection and present your argument on it's merits, not sensationalism. I think eating factory farmed animals is inhumane, I don't think Bob would like me to snap a bunch of pictures of him chowing down on a big fat hamburger and putting it up on a PETA website, and starting a campaign to ban factory farming using his name and images for posters and what not.</blockquote> Yep, here we go.<br /> <br /> I would respectfully suggest that if you are going to go to the trouble of starting an account just to chime in on this, you might also go through the trouble of reading through the thread and getting it right.<br /> <br /> AFAIK, no one has even once suggested that the octopus species is endangered and should be protected. The protection sought is for the site. You may think you have the right to impose your own ideas on what the community there should be able to decide, but my own feeling is that if the locals there decide that the site's value is increased by offering it the protection of park status, then I think that's their decision to make. Not mine, not yours. Theirs.<br /> <br /> There are a number of other places in the world that are protected from hunting so divers can go look at wildlife and not worry about whether it gets killed in front of them. I'm not above hunting myself, and am not very squeamish about much, but it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for a reasonably working brain to make that even the most avid hunter probably doesn't want to take his kids to a petting zoo when there's a chance that someone's going to come along and cap Bambi in front of them.<br /> <br /> This "poor kid" didn't get drug through any mud. He was living in mud: he acted like a creep someplace, and brought attention to himself, and once people started looking at what he advertised about himself on his Facebook page, they found racism, animal cruelty, and confirmation beyond measure that he was exactly the kind of punk you'd rather not have spoil a nice place. But by all means, bring all this crap back up, it will be really great for him for you to re-open these wounds.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><strong>Aceboyd;6574135 wrote:</strong> blah blah... reality... blah blah... death... blah blah... flesh ... blah blah... slaughtered ... blah blah... sharp blow to the head ... blah blah... severing the corotid artery ... blah blah... still beating heart... blah blah... blood ... blah blah... carcass... blah blah... blood pooling ... blah blah... more flesh ... blah blah... more blows to the head... blah blah... more throat slitting... blah blah... lp off their heads... blah blah... still beating heart again ... blah blah... even more blood ... blah blah... shaking things up a little by fluttering helplessly... blah blah... racial stuff about Asian, Japanese, Mediterranian,Koreans and Hindus ... blah blah...... blah blah... a little more flesh ... blah blah... ilk... blah blah... hell.</blockquote> :shocked2:Dude, take your meds.
  37. <blockquote><strong>nimoh;6574183 wrote:</strong> it was in the original story, but I probably could have paraphrased it better.</blockquote> <br /> Yeah, I would tend to agree. Just because someone doesn't see someting does not mean it isn't happening.
  38. <blockquote><strong>nimoh;6574129 wrote:</strong> not intending to start yet another argument on this subject, but I think your analogy is a little off... Many people eat big fat hamburgers every day, but nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day and it wasn't just one person's view that the harvesting shouldn't be done at this site, it was the view of almost the entire PNW diving community.</blockquote> <br /> Sorry, but I think you don't understand my point. Take of 1 octopus per diver per day is LEGAL where it was taken. And I'd like to see some evidence that "nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day". Eating 50 factory farmed hamburgers per person per day is legal anywhere in the US. If Bob and the "entire PNW diving community" has his favorite spots for diving and doesn't want to see people taking octopi, he has every right to do something about it. But to make an innocent, law abiding diver the poster boy of an anti-octopus hunting campaign is flat out wrong.
  39. <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574225 wrote:</strong> Sorry, but I think you don't understand my point. Take of 1 octopus per diver per day is LEGAL where it was taken. And I'd like to see some evidence that "nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day". Eating 50 factory farmed hamburgers per person per day is legal anywhere in the US. If Bob and the "entire PNW diving community" has his favorite spots for diving and doesn't want to see people taking octopi, he has every right to do something about it. But to make an innocent, law abiding diver the poster boy of an anti-octopus hunting campaign is flat out wrong.</blockquote> <br /> well, like I said, not interested in arguing about this anymore :)
  40. <blockquote><strong>nimoh;6574145 wrote:</strong> I don't think any "protester" is arguing that hunting octopus should be banned, merely that there is a time and place for it.</blockquote> <br /> Here is a quote from the article: <p style="text-align:left;"><span style="color: #343434;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><em>Officials are considering banning octopus hunting throughout the state</em></span></span></p>
  41. <blockquote><strong>kotik;6574219 wrote:</strong> <br /> AFAIK, no one has even once suggested that the octopus species is endangered and should be protected. The protection sought is for the site. </blockquote> <br /> I will respectfully suggest that you might not be quite as informed as you think you are. As one who lived up there and is still a somewhat regular member of the Northwestdiveclub, I can say there are some who are actively throwing it on the table to protect the GPO (not just at Cove 2, but everywhere in Washington).
  42. <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574229 wrote:</strong> Here is a quote from the article: <p style="text-align:left;"><span style="color: #343434;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><em>Officials are considering banning octopus hunting throughout the state</em></span></span></p><br /> </blockquote> <br /> <br /> I wasn't including officials when I said "protesters"<span style="color: Silver;"><br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 11px;">---------- Post added December 10th, 2012 at 04:14 PM ----------</span><br /> <br /> </span><blockquote><strong>pensacolaracer;6574230 wrote:</strong> I will respectfully suggest that you might not be quite as informed as you think you are. As one who lived up there and is still a somewhat regular member of the Northwestdiveclub, I can say there are some who are actively throwing it on the table to protect the GPO (not just at Cove 2, but everywhere in Washington).</blockquote> <br /> I am probably not all that well-informed either, I dove out at Cove 2 this past summer and had a great time, but I am far removed from the local politics regarding this issue.
  43. <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574225 wrote:</strong> Take of 1 octopus per diver per day is LEGAL where it was taken.</blockquote> <br /> So what? It was, as you so conclusively say, flat out wrong. <br /> <br /> <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574225 wrote:</strong> If Bob and the "entire PNW diving community" has his favorite spots for diving and doesn't want to see people taking octopi, he has every right to do something about it.</blockquote> <br /> They did, and it was legal. You just didn't like it.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574225 wrote:</strong> But to make an innocent, law abiding diver the poster boy of an anti-octopus hunting campaign is flat out wrong.</blockquote> <br /> It's nice that you feel that way, and it's healthy you like to share your feelings about what's flat out wrong with others on the internet. But I don't see why anyone should care. Maybe you could lobby to get the Washington hunter harrassment law extended to include saying anything bad about a hunter?
  44. <blockquote><strong>kotik;6574219 wrote:</strong> Yep, here we go.<br /> <br /> I would respectfully suggest that if you are going to go to the trouble of starting an account just to chime in on this, you might also go through the trouble of reading through the thread and getting it right.<br /> <br /> AFAIK, no one has even once suggested that the octopus species is endangered and should be protected. The protection sought is for the site. You may think you have the right to impose your own ideas on what the community there should be able to decide, but my own feeling is that if the locals there decide that the site's value is increased by offering it the protection of park status, then I think that's their decision to make. Not mine, not yours. Theirs.<br /> <br /> There are a number of other places in the world that are protected from hunting so divers can go look at wildlife and not worry about whether it gets killed in front of them. I'm not above hunting myself, and am not very squeamish about much, but it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for a reasonably working brain to make that even the most avid hunter probably doesn't want to take his kids to a petting zoo when there's a chance that someone's going to come along and cap Bambi in front of them.<br /> <br /> This "poor kid" didn't get drug through any mud. He was living in mud: he acted like a creep someplace, and brought attention to himself, and once people started looking at what he advertised about himself on his Facebook page, they found racism, animal cruelty, and confirmation beyond measure that he was exactly the kind of punk you'd rather not have spoil a nice place. But by all means, bring all this crap back up, it will be really great for him for you to re-open these wounds.<br /> <br /> <br /> :shocked2:Dude, take your meds.</blockquote> <br /> FYI, I joined Scubaboard over a year or 2 ago. I just don't check it often, and I have never posted until scubaboard sent me an email about this story. I have no problem if people want to ban octopus harvesting in ANY area based on reasonable cause. But to do it in reaction to some kid/"punk" doing something legal, tho maybe from a sick mind is ridiculous. If you have a problem with someone's behavior, address his behavior, don't legislate using sensationalism :no::no::no:

  45. KWS
    David <br /> I think you miss the whole point of what has happened. No one is challenging the legality of the action. As the story has been told, what he did was legal. There is more than just legalities involved. What he did was not only an ethical and moral issue It became a personal issue as the diver involved was arrogant, with out any degree of remorse once confromted by BOB and held to the position " I can do what i want and you cant stop me." If all divers shared that attitude there would be nothing worth diving for. I am not trying to put the GPO on a higher level than humans. I am saying theat we are to a degree the custodians of the enviromment we occupy. I agree that many times that is carried to extreems is some's view. If you want to hunt then hunt but you never, never interfere with any creature that is nesting or with young. It is just an unwritten rule that most accept instinctivily. Legality has nothing to do with common sence. This is not harrassent , this is peer presure to the max. If not stopped there would shortly be none left to be enjoyed. If it were deer season and it was legal to drop a doe ,I would not do so if the doe was with young. The person involved seems to lack comomn sence and and the community ( i will not use the word peers) have voiced thier opinion to him to let him know that such behavior though legal is unacceptable to general principal and common sence. I will not dispute that some have probably stepped over the line in the voicing of thier opinions, however those actions are seperate issues. Once again i say YIPEE because of the movement to officially protect this area from those that just cant act responsibly.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><strong>David Hedrick;6571655 wrote:</strong> So where do i sign up for the petition to stop the harassing and threatening of this<br /> diver who never broke the law but is being unlawfully persecuted?<br /> I'm all for preserving the environment, making protected areas etc, but they can't be put ahead of human life, and if the users here are so fanatical they'll threaten human life for political gain, what kind of world are they trying to preserve?<br /> You know,i think the speed limit in your neighborhood should be lower, so I'm going to phone and harass and threaten you, even though you obey the present speed limit! bunch of idiots.</blockquote>
  46. <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574241 wrote:</strong> FYI, I joined Scubaboard over a year or 2 ago. I just don't check it often, and I have never posted until scubaboard sent me an email about this story. I have no problem if people want to ban octopus harvesting in ANY area based on reasonable cause. But to do it in reaction to some kid/"punk" doing something legal, tho maybe from a sick mind is ridiculous. If you have a problem with someone's behavior, address his behavior, don't legislate using sensationalism :no::no::no:</blockquote> <br /> My apologies if I lumped you in unfairly, but the fact is that you are among a number of users making their second or so post on the board, all saying variations of the same thing (with varying degrees of coherence/sanity), all within a one day period when things had quieted down. I really doubt this is a complete coincidence, maybe the email update's what stirred it up again though.<br /> Regardless of whether you insist that someone must not legislate, there seems to be quite a few people living there that disagree with you. It's very much part of the American way, you know.
  47. <blockquote><strong>calidiverdan;6574241 wrote:</strong> I have no problem if people want to ban octopus harvesting in ANY area based on reasonable cause. But to do it in reaction to some kid/"punk" doing something legal, tho maybe from a sick mind is ridiculous.</blockquote> <br /> You keep right on thinking you get to define what is/is not a "reasonable cause." Everyone else will keep doing whatever they think best. Everyone wins!
  48. Everybody really ought to chill about this . . . it's actually quite an old story now.<br /> <br /> The good news is that the young man in question has been adopted by an active diving group in Seattle, and is now putting his energy to use in trash cleanup dives and a project to document storm drains.<br /> <br /> The good news is that proper due process has been followed, and the regulatory system here is considering limiting octopus hunting in popular dive sites. (Leaving, BTW, a tremendous amount of Puget Sound available to anyone who actually wants to try to eat the big, tough things . . . )<br /> <br /> The moral of the story to the average recreational diver is that due process works.<br /> <br /> The moral of the story to hunters is that it's not a good idea to do something unpopular in a very public place.

  49. Folks, THIS thread is to appreciate the fact that the coves are being considered for protection. This is a GOOD thing, IMO.<br /> <br /> If you want to go and bash each other's opinions on this kid and his rights....or throwing around how evil Bob was .....or how spearing/grabbing in a place like the coves is just hunky dory, go back to the original thread and bash away. This thread is a positive one and doesn't need to become bashfest #2.
  50. Just a quick update I read this morning:<br /> <a href="http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/aug0213c/">Fish and Wildlife Commission extends octopus protections and sets hunting seasons for migratory waterfowl | WDFW News Release</a><br /> <br /> <blockquote>[TABLE=width: 95%]<br /> [TR]<br /> [TD=class: reading_text]<span style="font-family: Arial;"><strong>WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE</strong></span> <span style="font-family: Verdana;"> <a href="http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/release-print/aug0213c/">Print Version</a></span><br /> <span style="color: #336699;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><strong>NEWS RELEASE</strong></span></span><br /> 600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091<br /> [HR][/HR]<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><strong><br /> August 02, 2013</strong><br /> <strong>Contact:</strong> Commission Office, 360-902-2267<br /> </span><strong><span style="font-size: 14px;">Fish and Wildlife Commission extends octopus protections</span></strong><br /> </span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><strong><span style="font-size: 14px;">and sets hunting seasons for migratory waterfowl</span></strong></span><br /> <br /> <span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">OLYMPIA - The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission extended protections for giant Pacific octopuses in Puget Sound today by prohibiting the recreational harvest of the species at seven popular scuba diving sites from Whidbey Island to Tacoma....</span></span>[/TD]<br /> [/TR]<br /> [/TABLE]<br /> </blockquote> <br /> Here's another link with video. <a href="http://westseattleblog.com/2013/08/giant-pacific-octopus-to-be-protected-at-seacrest-alki-elsewhere">http://westseattleblog.com/2013/08/giant-pacific-octopus-to-be-protected-at-seacrest-alki-elsewhere</a><br /> <br /> :clapping:
  51. Another article on the topic has been posted <a href="https://www.scubaboard.com/forums/pacific-northwest/438327-help-protect-giant-pacific-octopus-sign-petition-4.html#post6921370">here</a>.
  52. Kudos to Bob!<br /> <br /> May of us worked hard to get the Casino Point Dive Park declared a state Marine Protected Area (MPA) which it was this past January. However, you have to be careful what language legislators put into such bills. Here in California, many MPAs do not allow the removal of ANY living thing whether it belongs there or not! Many of us have wanted to try to control the non-native Asian seaweed <em>Sargassum horneri</em> which completely dominates the park and most other areas of my island during winter and spring. Due to the language the California Dept of Fish & Wildlife has made it far too difficult to attempt such control without devising a scientific process and two years of monitoring <u>at our own expense</u>. Very strange.

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