Doubles, Weight and Dry

[nereas]

1)Agreed, but if you are already negative with double steel tanks, adding ditchable weight does nothing to help you in the sea or in the cave. That's why things like redundant buoyancy from dry suit, lift bag, etc become important.

2) Agreed, but your statement that those without ditchable weight are unsafe and dangerous has no bearing on cave diving. Which leads to.....

3) You've got it backwards...those who think their open water protocols are adequate for cave diving are grossly mistaken.

If you are already negative without any ditchable weight, then you surely need to switch out steel for aluminum, as in an aluminum plate and aluminum main tanks.

Why does this sound like rocket science apparently to so many people here? Did I/Qs recently take a nose dive? Or is it the decline of the public education system?

I realize that being negative with no ditchable weight is Darwinism at work. But I think it is sad, all the same.

 

[Sideband]

Alternative buoyancy is fine, so long as you understand the situation that you are in. However it still makes little sense failing to wear a weight belt, and failing to load that weight belt with the amount of weight corresponding to the volume of your breathing mix multiplied by 0.08 lbs per cu ft. Thus you then and only then have the option to ditch the belt in the early stages of the dive, in case your buoyancy wing (or suit, or both) fails, thus being able to establish neutral buoyancy at that point.

Your logic is seriously flawed. If I'm wearing double 130's and a SS plate I am already more negative than I need to be. Adding a weight belt and MORE weight only makes me a dirt dart. If I already have TOO MUCH weight, how can ADDING MORE be better?

This reminds me of the Army's rule of everything in triplicate. One copy goes in your file. One copy goes in their file. The last copy they burn so the enemy doesn't get it.

 

[vshearer]

ucf you are talking to yourself if you are in fact trying to talk to me. I no longer see your posts, same as with Jeff. That saves band width and time.

Yo..I haven't even posted here but you can add me too... soon you will just be talking to yourself anyhow.

 

[vshearer]

What is really interesting is considering the issue with doubles and a 7mil wetsuit. So much swing. Do most saltwater divers use aluminum doubles? (I know many do).

I feel this situation is where alternative bouyancy is essential.

(Take your dive knife and cut the leg off your wetsuit and fill with air)

 

[Meng_Tze]

1) not everyone dives in caves; some prefer the open water, and you definitely cannot crawl your way off the bottom of the sea;

2) cave diving requires different protocols;

3) cave divers who think their cave protocols are adequate for open water diving are grossly mistaken. [This is one of the several fundamental flaws of GUE-DIR procedure.]

I agree with point 1. But look to some clarification of the second and third points...

 

[Sideband]

What is really interesting is considering the issue with doubles and a 7mil wetsuit. So much swing. Do most saltwater divers use aluminum doubles? (I know many do).

I feel this situation is where alternative bouyancy is essential.

(Take your dive knife and cut the leg off your wetsuit and fill with air)

Isn't this a good place for a buddy?
Cut the leg off the buddies suit.

 

[rjack321]

What is really interesting is considering the issue with doubles and a 7mil wetsuit. So much swing. Do most saltwater divers use aluminum doubles? (I know many do).

I feel this situation is where alternative bouyancy is essential.

If its cold enough to justify a 7mm suit, which will become 3mm at most technical depths (brrrr), then its past time for a drysuit. There, alternative bouyancy and more adaptable thermal protection throughout the depths of the dive all in one.

 

[InkDiver]

If you are already negative without any ditchable weight, then you surely need to switch out steel for aluminum, as in an aluminum plate and aluminum main tanks.

Why does this sound like rocket science apparently to so many people here? Did I/Qs recently take a nose dive? Or is it the decline of the public education system?

I realize that being negative with no ditchable weight is Darwinism at work. But I think it is sad, all the same.

Nope, doesn't work that way, otherwise nobody would be diving with steel doubles, and there are LOTS who are. Aluminum doubles might be great for an ocean dive, but they won't provide the amount of gas I want for a solid cave dive. Again, you are assuming that what is common practice for ocean divers is common practice for all...wrong. When having to choose who to take my gear advice from, I think I'll go with someone like JJ, or the many other well qualified cave divers in my area, long before someone who just wants to bash pretty much anything anyone has to say.

 

[djcheburashka]

With under 99 dives to your credit, that is unlikely. So don't worry be happy.

But on not one of those dives did I think it was a good idea to ditch weight in order to become neutral, which still puts me one up on you on the issue.

 

[diverbob]

All this talk of double 130s is making my back hurt. Is that a standard size doubles set up in some regions? I thought my double 108s was big. Wow.

I do dive air between 50 and 130 feet, maybe even deeper if there is something to see there. (Not in a cave though) I am usually in the water every weekend somewhere, and although Nitrox is nice to have, I like my free air. Granted, this is only if I am only doing 2 or 3 dives for the day. If I am on vacation, or doing long dives at depth, then yes, I will buck up and get the Nitrox. I also agree that diving whatever your buddy is breathing is a good idea for planning and safety purposes. I am not a DIR or GUE guy, but I am trying to learn more about the philosophy behind the thinking.