Can I use a single wing for doubles?

[RJP]

One diver I know was sucked under the hull of a shipwreck by strong current and pinned against the hull. The current was undermining the sand from under the wreck...he said he had to fully inflate to get out of the current and from under the hull. Unusual circumstance? Maybe. But he said he probably wouldn't have been able to do it without the extra lift.

So ummm, where was his buddy when all this was happening? And what happened when he pumped up that wing and got out? Once he got free that must have been some ride he took...

+1

Yeah, I gotta call BS on that too.

If he did manage to free himself via "emergency buoyant extraction" he probably would have popped far enough out of the water to land in the basket of a CG chopper.

 

[PerroneFord]

Wow, I don't even know where to start. I am going to take your word that you are not just yanking our chain here, so this will be a serious reply.

As noted in some other thread, I dove Twin 120s with two slung OMS 66 steels. In a .5 mil wetsuit. I would love me 95 lbs of redundant buoyancy.

For the love of God, why? What dive would you make that you'd need nearly 400 cuft of gas? And no exposure protection.

Because if you have to spend 30 minutes waiting for the boat to pick you up sitting on the gear is easier, warmer, and safer.

Seems you might be warmer if you traded that .5 neoprene wetsuit for something adequate. Something like a DUI 30/30 comes to mind.

Warm water open ocean diving is so different from fresh, cave, or dry diving, that I am tempted to start a Warm Water Tech Divers certification agency to rid all those people of their 'useless' gear.

You might note that I live on the Florida Gulf Coast. Amazingly, we have warm salt water here. I've even been in it. I do realize that it is different than the caves. However, I did note that the laws of physics, thermodynamics, as well as human physiology carried right over.

Huge buoyancy is a safety issue in warm water, because the sooner you can get your body up out of the water the better your circulation is.

Huge buoyancy is only necessary if you insist on diving an unbalanced rig. I am interested however, in your assertion that circulation improves out of the water. This is certainly true if one takes vasco constriction into account, but I'd be willing to wager if you were protecting yourself thermally, it would become a non-issue.

And you don't dive dry, period. You wear the thinnest possible wetsuit you can. to avoid huge buoyancy changes.

I'll take note of this... Wear inadequate thermal protection to negate buoyancy changes, but wear 95# of lift to compensate for 60# negative tanks. Got it.

And you have to dive with what's available, which means that you might be slinging Steel 66's. Because islands have what they have, being islands.

No, I don't. If I deem available gear to be unsafe, I'll snorkel, or play golf. I'd rather not put my life at risk just so I can jump in the water. Clearly, some people feel differently about this.

I think it is at least of note that the other counter voice is also a warm-ish water diver.

Several of us are warm water divers.

And the thinking that might make sense in fresh water caves, just does not make sense in warm salt water.

I guess this depends on your definition of "thinking".

 

[cool_hardware52]

I am always surprised that the same sort of people who mocked PADI for all the various Cert levels, are now insisting that just that sort of multi-level training is needed for tech diving.

When have I "Mocked" any training agency?

People have been diving doubles and deco for a long long time. Long before any of the equipment to do it was available. Or the training.

I grew up riding in auto's without seat belts, and riding bikes without a helmet. I survived it, but it would be irresponsible to promote either today.

Tobin

 

[beanojones]

When have I "Mocked" any training agency?
Tobin

I was not referring to anyone in particular with that comment about the training. Sorry if it seemed aimed at you.

I just find it interesting that 10 years ago people called PADI "Put Another Dollar In" and laughed at people paying for specialty courses. And now what seems to be the same sort of people are saying that specialty courses are necessary for safety. It's just interesting. Maybe PADI had the business model right all along.

....
I grew up riding in auto's without seat belts, and riding bikes without a helmet. I survived it, but it would be irresponsible to promote either today.

I understand what you are saying here. But to repeat the DIR mantra in a different way, equipment should not be used to replace skills. If you cannot dive safely in make-do, unsuited gear, then maybe the only thing to do is not dive. Accidents can happen to people in the right gear. People in the wrong gear can dive safely. Equipment does not replace skills.

What gear does do is make a given dive more enjoyable. I can dive without a mask. It's not fun, but I can do it. The same to a lesser degree is true for every bit of the DIR kit. I am not at all convinced (though DIR people seem to be, paradoxically) that certain equipment makes an appreciable difference in safety. Skills do. What certain equipment does do in make the dive more enjoyable.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I was not referring to anyone in particular with that comment about the training. Sorry if it seemed aimed at you.

When you quote me your comments are aimed at me. Before you choose to "tar with the same brush" do a little homework.

I understand what you are saying here. But to repeat the DIR mantra in a different way, Extra equipment should not be used to replace skills.

Exactly what "extra" equipment have I recommended be used?

If you cannot dive safely in make-do, unsuited gear, then maybe the only thing to do is not dive.

I see we agree on something.

People in the wrong gear can dive safely.

Choosing to do so demonstrates a mindset that troubling. Promoting such behavior is irresponsible. Risk management starts a long way before entering the water.

Equipment does not replace skills.

Again where have I suggested that one replace skills with gear? You seem to believe that skills can overcome inappropriate gear. This is an unsound attitude.

Tobin

 

[foles1972]

The wreck of the Roy Jodrey in the St.Lawrence Seaway.

+1

Yeah, I gotta call BS on that too.

If he did manage to free himself via "emergency buoyant extraction" he probably would have popped far enough out of the water to land in the basket of a CG chopper.

What's your phone number? I'll have him give you a call and you can tell him it's BS.

 

[PerroneFord]

LOL,

For the record, I wasn't implying it was BS, I was genuinely interested to know where his buddy was when he was getting sucked under, and what happened to the man when he floated himself free.

By the way, I've read quite a bit about the Jodrey, and I'd love to dive that boat.

 

[foles1972]

Hi Perrone...I understand. The other guy was pretty blunt though. I believe his buddy was slightly behind and above him and saw him disappear under the side of the hull. I think he realised what was going on and grabbed a piece of the wreck and waited a minute or so to see what was going to happen. They guy came up over the side of the hull venting air, and sweeping further down the wreck, but was able to gain control of his buoyancy quickly enough. The buddy followed him down the side of the wreck and joined up again, then decided to end the dive. The guy's nerves were rattled a bit, from what I understand.
Anyway...this is the way the storey was told to me about a year ago.

 

[PerroneFord]

I bet that was a heck of an experience!

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Why buy a doubles wing if you cannot afford technical diving?

Is this a good time to mention that I have 3 different size wings and I am looking for a 4th to setup a single tank rig? Anyone have a good old style Halcyon 27lb wing for sale?