Swim test with or without gear?

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I'm thinking about getting my PADI but I'm very concerned about my horrible swimming skills. I'm a freediver and I'm perfectly comfortable in the water - deep water, being sloshed around by waves, mask getting flooded, diving in the dark, etc. I can do with no problem. Throw me a cheapo pair of fins and I can go at it for hours on end. ... I can do a distance swim if I'm on my back and constantly moving. I can't tread water for more than a minute before getting tired out. I can't relax everything and just float. If I'm totally relaxed I sink.
If I completely fill my lungs with air I become neutrally buoyant with my head about a foot under the water. ... Would instructors allow me to do the test with fins?
The specific PADI requirement: 'At some point prior to certification, Open Water Diver course students must also complete a 200 metre/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 metre/yard swim with mask, snorkel and fins.' So, yes, you can use fins for the swim. And, as several have mentioned, the 10 minute float test is really a 'a 10-minute swim/float without using any swim aids'. But, in that case, you will NOT be able to use fins. Can you swim / float / tread water for 10 minutes (without using any swim aids) without drowning? You do not need to tread water in one place. Basically, you need to be in water too deep to stand in and 'not drown', as others have said, for 10 minutes (stopwatch timed) without touching the sides of the pool, or the bottom. If not, then you may have a problem.
But it's extremely hard for me to swim un-aided because my body density is pretty high and I will sink like a stone if I'm not constantly moving.
Well, the good news is, if you can become certified, you probably won't need a large amount of lead on your waist in order to go diving.
 
I'm not PADI, but I imagine the same logic went into my agency's swim/float tests as originally went into PADI's. Basically, if you're going to be around water (which is rather a given in scuba), we want to be sure you won't drown if you happen to fall in.

If you fall in from a dock, anchored boat, or other stationary location, you're going to need to be able to swim to an exit point (the ladder, the quarry stairs, the boat ramp, et cetera), so we ask you to show that you can swim a certain distance without gear. As far as I know, other than PADI's snorkel option, everyone else requires you to do this without gear. That seems only logical, as if you slip and fall in, it probably won't be while you're walking around wearing all your snorkel gear. :biggrin: You don't have to be fast; you just have to be able to make it over to the exit without drowning.

If, on the other hand, you're walking to the water cooler on your ride out to the dive site when your boat suddenly moves under you, tipping you overboard, it's also important to be able to stay on the surface and not drown while you wait for the boat to make a quick turn and come back to pick you up. You don't have to stay perfectly still in the water, but you have to be able to stay on the surface until the boat's back for you (which should certainly be less than ten minutes). Since you're not likely to be wearing a flotation device the *entire* time you're on the deck, it's important to be able to keep yourself from drowning for a few minutes with no aids.

I certainly agree with offthewall1 that these are *not* scuba skills. They tend to have very little relevance to your performance as a scuba diver. I *absolutely* and *unequivocally* disagree with offthewall1's pronouncement that these are worthless tests that should be eliminated. While they have precious little to do with your underwater time, they plainly show your instructor that you should not drown should you happen to have a clumsy moment.

Regarding the original post, as long as there's some method you have of staying on the surface for the required time and the required distance in the swim tests, no worries. The swims aren't like the Instructor-level watermanship skills (which are there to show that a prospective instructor has sufficient strength and stamina for the agency to allow them to care for divers and students under their charge); they're there to show that we're not unduly endangering you by allowing you to be near the wet stuff. :D
 
As far as I know, other than PADI's snorkel option, everyone else requires you to do this without gear.

The snorkel option is RSTC, not just PADI.

I was of the same opinion regarding this. I am not sure where I am now.

I recently heard a discussion on this topic between highly experienced instructors, and was surprised to hear some of the most experienced advocate the snorkel option as a standard procedure for class. I won't attempt to replicate the entire discussion, but I thought some good points were raised. Not one of them had to do with making the standard easier--they had more to do with instructional benefits.
 
If you do PADI, opt for the 300m swim with mask and fins...piece of cake.

I sink like a stone when I exhale. The treading water part will not be fun, but it won't be hard.

Last month I had to do the water treading for 15 minutes for PADI DM with that last two or three minutes keeping my hands out of the water. I basically I floated on my back with gentle kicks to keep me moving a wee bit so as not to sink. I worked. Even with hands out of the water.

Good luck!
 
Well this is where I give my LDS the best credit. I called Randy and told him I could not take the course as I cant swim a lick. He told me to come in and try so I did. With a few minutes patience he showed me how to do a float and I was off to the races. I must say that this factor more then anything else was what won my loyalty to the shop.

The best advice I can give since I am the worlds worst swimmer probably is go in the water and try diffrent methods and see what works best for you and talk it over with the LDS and let them know your situation. After all you are a paying customer and potential big buisness in the future they will most likely be willing to work with you on learning.

As to the course at hand make sure you let us know how it goes. Every true hearted diver loves to see newbies excel!
 
What our shop does is offer basic swimming lessons for people who need help. We have qualified instructors and a flexible program that can offer whatever level of instruction a student needs. You can sign up for these classes without even planning to take scuba.
 
Keep in mind the purpose of the swim, as well as the difference between swimming and snorkling.

Clay Jar makes some good points. Being on the water for long periods of time is a given for folks who get hooked on diving. The longer you are on the water, the more important it is that you develop basic water skills. The Jar's obsevations about swimming to a ladder are a good example of why.

Swimming and propelling thru the water with a mask, snorkle and fins are two very different sets of skills. They are both reasonable and smart - and they serve different purposes.

Rather than try to beat the system by picking the easiest skill to perform, some divers discover the logic of learning to do more. (Learning more - and then being able to DO more - is a good thing.:doctor:) Some instructors have the skill and inclination to teach people to perform different sets of skills - others have the skill but not the inclination. Some have neither. Check with the instructor that you are consdering as your guide and see if he/she will take the time to teach you to do things that you can't currently do.

For example, I frequently encounter students who are anxious about the swim. OK, so one pool session (and some basic instruction) later, they have enough skills and knowldege to do a basic swim. Hey, they ain't competitive swimmers, but that's not the goal. Now, with new confidence AND skill, they are better prepared to spend a lot more time in the water.

Interestingly enough, many instructors also don't really teach snorkling skills either. There's more to water competence than just staying alive. Good snorkling is skillful, and it leads to enjoyable water time!

Finally, google "drownproofing" and learn what the Red Cross and others teach about basic floatation techniques. Your instructor might not know this, but it is a very cool set of skills, will help you kick the 10 minute "tread" requirement, and is a wonderful life-long skill to have.

Good luck!
 
Mine swimming test was with fins as was my "tread" test. Can't remember if I had mask but sure I didn't have a snorkel.
 
If your tread was with fins then they did it wrong and broke standards. I do know of one shop that did allow a diver who whined about not being able to do the tread in 5 mil suit. Sure hope he never falls in the water without one. I'd have told him to take lessons or find another sport away from water. And swimming with fins is not swimming, it's snorkeling. It;s also why there are adult swim classes.
 
If your tread was with fins then they did it wrong and broke standards. I do know of one shop that did allow a diver who whined about not being able to do the tread in 5 mil suit. Sure hope he never falls in the water without one. I'd have told him to take lessons or find another sport away from water. And swimming with fins is not swimming, it's snorkeling. It;s also why there are adult swim classes.

According to PADI standards, if a student does the surface sills test (commonly called a "tread") in a wet suit (for thermal protection), the student must be weighted no neutral buoyancy.
 
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