Zero to hero - top schools?

[Ex-Aquanaut]

It's impossible to generalize accurately about courses, programs or the students in them. We do not call our internships "zero to hero" although about a third of those that join us have never been certified. But by blanket saying you wouldn't hire them or that top schools wouldn't have such programs is pure oversimplification. Virtually all of our instructors land jobs and have kept those jobs for years and are quality instructors. Good schools (and ours is one of those) make sure those who should not be instructors don't become one. Standards are there for a reason.

For the OP, I urge you to take a look at us here in Aquanauts. We offer both $10,000 and a $6,000 programs so all price needs can be met. We have an unrivaled pass rate on the PADI instructor exam, the best job placement of any similar program and exacting standards.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's impossible to generalize accurately about courses, programs or the students in them. We do not call our internships "zero to hero" although about a third of those that join us have never been certified.

OK, zero-to-would-be-hero it is then.

But by blanket saying you wouldn't hire them or that top schools wouldn't have such programs is pure oversimplification.

No it's not, it's a pretty simple problem with a very simple answer - no!

Virtually all of our instructors land jobs and have kept those jobs for years and are quality instructors. Good schools (and ours is one of those) make sure those who should not be instructors don't become one. Standards are there for a reason.

Horse feathers.

For the OP, I urge you to take a look at us here in Aquanauts. We offer both $10,000 and a $6,000 programs so all price needs can be met. We have an unrivaled pass rate on the PADI instructor exam, the best job placement of any similar program and exacting standards.

I wouldn't touch it, or a graduate of it, with a ten meter pole. Especially since I've rarely seen this question come up without you popping out of the woodwork to flog your wares.

 

[RJP]

Good schools (and ours is one of those) make sure those who should not be instructors don't become one. Standards are there for a reason.

What percent of people who enroll in your instructor program finish the program WITHOUT receiving an instructor certification?

Does this percentage vary between the divers with previous certification/experience and the "zero to hero" group?

 

[Ex-Aquanaut]

Percentage over what time period? I'd certainly have to do some research as we've been an IDC or CDC since 2001.

We're doing an iDC now, but in the previous three IDCs at least one candidate out of 3 or 4 each time was failed.

Interestingly, the last one (he did 2 IDCs with us he did not pass), went to Koh Tao and did pass and is now an OWSI.

Experience-wise, the people that tank the IDC (or fall out of the program before even reaching Divemaster) are those coming in at the Open Water or Advanced level. Off the top of my head, I can only recall one who came in as a 7-month student and flunked out before then. In 6 months, they get 200-250 dives. They're generally able to work through their shortcomings.

 

[MrJDoran]

OK, zero-to-would-be-hero it is then.
No it's not, it's a pretty simple problem with a very simple answer - no!
Horse feathers.

I wouldn't touch it, or a graduate of it, with a ten meter pole. Especially since I've rarely seen this question come up without you popping out of the woodwork to flog your wares.

@ Thalassamania: Your replies are hilarious.

@ Everyone:

It seems there are some mixed feelings about this whole scenario and I have to say that I lean towards believing that zero to hero isnt the way it should be done as far as instructors go. BUT the program still sounds like a great way to begin a diving lifestyle and gain a ton of experience in a short amount of time. That being said I think I will move forward with one of these programs when I find one that suits me but not to become an instructor. More like a way to cut my teeth and immerse myself in dive culture. And living in Mexico or Thailand for 6 months doesnt sound too bad either =)

Thanks again to all for the words of wisdom.

 

[Arizona]

A lot comes down to the learner IMO. These "zero to hero" programs are not for everyone. I believe some learners (i.e. scuba divers) can do well in intense well supervised/structured programs. I teach courses with two different dive operators, one of which offers this kind of program. The other is a Thai run boat. The instructor school I mention is not the poster above by the way. I am the only freelance instructor on their boat that I have noticed thus far and can honestly write the new instructors I have met have been pretty impressive. As I work with secondary students most of time, I always use extra conservative ratios when diving with my school club. Frequently I borrow a DM or newly minted instructor to help out and never had any issues. The dive school is happy as their newbies get more experience. I am more than happy to have an extra certified assistant without charge as it is a non profit school club. Some excel more than others as should be expected. To discount graduates from these programs without actually seeing or working with them is a bit shortsighted IMO. Again, some will be better than others.

Conditions in the area Aquanauts instructs is particularly relevant as it is not typical holiday type diving. Marginal vis, current and a dozen or so different dive spots provide excellent training. In order to teach in this area your nav skills need to be spot on. I have dived with DMs trained in other areas outside of Thailand that can't navigate for crap. Again, these programs are not for all learners, but some do very well with them.

I did my training over several years as my primary job would not allow me to do such a program. For me personally, I wish after earning my OWSI rating I could have completed an MSDT internship. I gradually completed the requirements over a 1.5 year period but surely would have benefited from this sort of internship as any new instructor would. I am thinking of completing IDC Staff at one of these school as they have very experienced Course Directors.

 

[SteveAD]

@ Thalassamania: Your replies are hilarious.

@ Everyone:

It seems there are some mixed feelings about this whole scenario and I have to say that I lean towards believing that zero to hero isnt the way it should be done as far as instructors go. BUT the program still sounds like a great way to begin a diving lifestyle and gain a ton of experience in a short amount of time. That being said I think I will move forward with one of these programs when I find one that suits me but not to become an instructor. More like a way to cut my teeth and immerse myself in dive culture. And living in Mexico or Thailand for 6 months doesnt sound too bad either =)

Thanks again to all for the words of wisdom.

I disagree with the idea that this is a way to gain a ton of experience.

I did not do a zero to hero program. But 20 years ago I became a scuba addict. I took my open water course, and immediately enrolled in the aow, progressing from course to course as quickly as my instructor scheduled them, and diving every non class weekend as well. I didn't start out with instrucor as a goal, but I passed the divemaster program at about 6 months and the next class was the IDC. I took and passed the IDC and passed my IE 368 days after my OW cert date.

I now found myself a rookie instructor who had a relatively narrow field of experience. Many of my students had already been diving in places I had never even heard of. I felt like a kid pretending to be an instructor.

I took a few years off from serious teaching to get out and expand my experience base, and coming back from that as a 4 years certified 500+ dives instructor who has actually done a bunch of fun diving, I knew I was a much better instructor than the 1 year 100+ dives wonder I was when I passed the IE.

My earlier comment that I would not hire the product of a ZTH program extends to the fact that I would not now hire the me of 20 years ago. The shop I own is a 5 star IDC and I simply don't accept instructor candidates who are not already experienced divers. If a rookie comes in and says he wants to be an instructor everything is done one step at a time. And no steps are taken before the last one was mastered.

 

[Thalassamania]

@ Thalassamania: Your replies are hilarious.

@ Everyone:

It seems there are some mixed feelings about this whole scenario and I have to say that I lean towards believing that zero to hero isnt the way it should be done as far as instructors go. BUT the program still sounds like a great way to begin a diving lifestyle and gain a ton of experience in a short amount of time. That being said I think I will move forward with one of these programs when I find one that suits me but not to become an instructor. More like a way to cut my teeth and immerse myself in dive culture. And living in Mexico or Thailand for 6 months doesnt sound too bad either =)

Thanks again to all for the words of wisdom.

It should give you pause to notice that almost every experienced instructor and course director, etc., here is advising you against this approach, not just on the thread but also on others. The only one that is really up there in your face telling you what a great idea and opportunity it is is someone trying to separate you from $6,000 to $10,000. That would tell most people something.

What you don't realize is what the people who run these kind of programs really think, back when I was the Director of the Scott Carpenter Man in the Sea Program, I used to often have beer after work with the guys who ran several of the biggest instructor mills down in the Keys. Often the conversation would turn to the crappy quality of their candidates (their opinion, no mine, I rarely say their candidates), they'd turn to each other and say something like, "how much damage can they do? They're only gonna last a year or two." We feel bad that you're being taken in, they just want your money and actually hold you in the kind of contempt that you think we do. Try and get your head screwed on straight, pay your dues and become the kind of instructor that counts.

 

[MrJDoran]

Since posting this thread I have had so many offers to join schools all over the place. Its a bit ridiculous really since I was here seeking honest advice and not sales pitches..
Everyone says the same thing too. "we have the best pass rate" " we have the best instructors" "we just want your money" etc... Oh well I guess I did pretty much wave the newbie flag around a bit.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

. . . Oh well I guess I did pretty much wave the newbie flag around a bit.

You asked a legitimate question. And I'm not sure I can blame people for trying to get your business. But, I definitely agree with those that recommend you take your time and gain a lot more experience. When I first started last year I thought I was going to do the "fast track" method. Luckily, I had good, experienced friends talk me out of it. I'm close to 300 dives now and have since realized myself that it would've been a mistake. I know I could've easily passed whatever agency I chose instructor exam at their minimum requirements. And I believe I would've been a good instructor. . . As long as everything went right. But, now I know I probably wouldn't have had the experience to deal with everything that could go wrong. Regardless of how good my training was. And being able to deal with all the things that could go wrong in a variety of different environments and situations is what makes a real instructor. And the only way to do that is by a lot of varied "real world" experiences. And that just takes time and diving in a lot of different places.

Besides, it's hard to pass on a lot of experience to new divers, when you don't have much yourself.