Snap shackles or Carabiners

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CCTX50

Contributor
Messages
209
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7
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
# of dives
2500 - 4999
I am looking for input as to what other PSD teams or individuals use when tethering to the surface. For years our team has used carabiners to secure our tether line/comm rope/SSA to the diver. We have recently started to use snap shackles on the no SSA diving after attending some recent training. This trainer was a big proponent of using snap shackles. His thought was if you had to disconnect quickly all you had to do is pull the cord and you are free. My concern is this "cord" getting caught on something and pulling the shackle open without the diver knowing until it is too late. With a carabiner this is unlikely to happen. Is there any cases where a snap shackle has come loose from the diver? :idk:
 
I'm still a baby PSD, but here's what we do and, to the best of my knowledge, why we do it.

We clip the tether/comm cable to a separate harness beneath the BC with a locking 'biner.

Our response area is primarily ponds, lakes, and reservoirs; with a very few exceptions our rivers are not deep enough to require dive operations. I can imagine a situation diving in a significant current when a quick release would be advantageous, but I don't have enough experience with that type of diving to be able to comment on it.
In the lakes and ponds that are our bread and butter, that line is my lifeline. It connects me to my tender, gives me a reference in blackwater, and lets the backup diver come straight to me if any problems develop. My first reaction to any problems which I cannot clear myself is to call my backup, not bail off the line (which may or may not be an option).

As the trainer stated, a quick release allows you to come off a tensioned line (or a non-tensioned line slightly faster, which is only significant if the line is about to be under tension).
The only situations in which I dive that I can imagine the line coming under tension involve the line getting caught by a mobile object; an object sliding/falling underwater, a passing boat, or on an object which is being lifted.
I image the first is rather rare, the second requires a negligent surface team, and the third a negligent dive team.

Having said that, I've been impressed with the good, hard, tug required to open the neighboring team's shackles and have not seen a snap shackle come loose accidentally. But, with the possible exception of current, I'm not sure what problem it solves.

I'd love to hear from those with more experience. Also, for those who use comms and a shackle, are there any issues with one's mask dislodging as the comm cable pulls out after popping a shackle?
 
The right snap shackle set up right are fine.
 
I know that they are relatively expensive, but we use spinnaker shackles for those sorts of applications. They can take a load and will not foul on things and they can be released in a positive fashion with a single pull.
 
Dive Rescue International has endorsed the use of the snap shackle for approximately 6 years. Several thousand students have gone though our program since then and there has been no mishaps.

I will also mention that snap shackles have been in use for many years in the swiftwater rescue community and in our current diving program, again with zero incidents of failure. Since we endorsed the procedure several years back, hundreds of agencies have switched to quick release snap shackles and no adverse incidents have been reported to our office.

The snap shackle was added to the Dive Rescue International curriculum after studying line of duty deaths and the realization that 13% of the Public Safety Diving line-of-duty deaths were attributed the diver being held underwater until he drowned. There were multiple cases where these divers were secured to their "safety lines" by way of carabiners. We know that a diver cannot release out of a carabiner when it is under load and the quick release snap shackle offers a viable option.

CCTX50 references a scenario where a diver might pull "the shackle open without the diver knowing until it is too late."

Consider what might happen in 99.99999% of the cases if this very unlikely scenario played out... The diver would come off the safety line and ascend to the surface. That is not a big deal.

Dying is a big deal and we know that there are multiple cases where the carabiner was a component in a system that held a diver underwater until he died. The quick release snap shackle offers a better option than the "dive knife & carbiner" option.

Additionally, remember that the diver is holding onto the search line and the quick release snap shackle is attached to the center pivot point on the chest harness.

IF the snap shackle were to release by accident, in most cases the diver is still griping the search line. For many years this was the only way the diver was attached to a search line and I do not recall one fatality that was caused by a diver losing his grip on the line.

Lastly, consider the number of sailboats that use a quick release snap shackle as an integral component of their sail systems. Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of these quick release snap shackles are in use and the incidents of failure are practically non-existent. If a failure is reported, it is typically corrosion and the failure of the shackle to open easily. Essentially, IF they fail, they fail in the "safe" (closed) position.

I know of one person from New York who states that she has witnessed hundreds of failures and I find it ironic that thousands of people I know, including myself have NEVER seen a failure.

I would encourage you to try the system yourself and make your own determination.

Respectfully,

Blades Robinson
 
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Just to clear somethings up. In most situations that we dive in here there is hardly any current to deal with. We normally do not have any swiftwater to deal with. When we are tethered (which is the majority of the time) we are using comms rope. The tether point is at the center of our chest under our BCD. If we needed to ditch our gear we would still be tethered to the surface. We do not hold onto the line with a hand all the time. We do a lot of pier searches in our port searching for explosives. When doing so we do not hold the line. So in this instance, if for whatever reason the line came loose we would not have that reference.

As Blades stated above, "Consider what might happen in 99.99999% of the cases if this unlikely scenario played out... The diver would come off the safety line and ascend to the surface. That is not a big deal."

IT would be a big deal if you are in an overhead enviroment, blackwater and you loose that line back to the surface or the line that your back up diver would use to get to you in quick fashion. I do understand what Blades is saying though. That in most instances you would just surface.

I am not against the use of snap shackles, infact I have been using them since the training mentioned. I have outfitted most of our search lines with shackles. Yet I have divers on our team that do not have full faith in them and so that is the reasoning behind this thread. I will pass on this information and try to educate them on this subject. Thanks for the responses!
 
If you're concerned about that scenario then the best way to deal with the issue is to train for it- test out an accidental release under controlled conditions in training and see how it plays out.
 
I'd love to hear from those with more experience. Also, for those who use comms and a shackle, are there any issues with one's mask dislodging as the comm cable pulls out after popping a shackle?

Welcome back Squirrel...

Fortunately, search line entanglement is not terribly common though we know it happens. We also know that well trained divers and well trained dive teams never make mistakes.

...and if you believe that last statement, please remember "never say never."

It surprises me that many of the discussions on the online forums reference worst case scenarios that require a back up to the back up, and a back up to the second back up, and another back up to the third back up ... with one thing backing up another and and another thing backing up another ... you get the point.

There are divers who carry redundant pony bottles with diverter valves to the full face mask in case they forget to monitor their air supply, their tender fails to monitor their air supply and the back up diver, safety officer, team leader and others fail to monitor the diver's air supply. Then the diver carries a spare mask in case he has to doff the full face mask, and he has a spare second stage if the primary second fails and another second stage on the redundant in case the diverter valve or full face mask fails. And all of this is to cover an unlikely event.

Based on 50 years of line-of-duty death research, the facts prove that a diver is far more likely to drown because his search line/carabiner holds him underwater.

These fouled lines are NEVER planned; i.e., no one goes in the water saying "I want to foul my line so badly that I will not be able to return to the surface." That just doesn't happen... but in fact, lines do get fouled.

And that is the reason why Dive Rescue International and many others (including PADI) suggest that public safety divers use the quick release snap shackle.

I will give you a recent scenario...

On a rainy night a dive team is called to investigate a vehicle that has run off the road and entered a rain filled retention pond. The vehicle's headlights are visible as a faint glow below the surface of the water.

The diver enters the water and walks out to waist deep water, in the direction of the submerged vehicle. As he begins to transition from his wading position to a swimming position, he feels a suction at his feet and knows that he is in proximity of a culvert pipe that is draining the high water in the retention pond to a nearby creek. He quickly pulls away from the suction and swims out to the vehicle.

At the vehicle he performs a 360 search around the perimeter of the car looking to confirm that each window is closed and any potential victim would be contained inside the vehicle. This is a recovery mode operation due to a prolonged response and warm water. The fact that the doors and windows are closed also makes it unlikely that the diver will need to search beyond the perimeter of the vehicle.

The diver reports over the comm system that he is going to return to the "shore" for the wrecker cable and straps. The tender has provided slack in the search line initially so the diver could conduct his 360 search around the vehicle.

As the diver begins his swim back towards the tender and the wrecker cable, slack is pulled out of his search/comm line. The tender is also retrieving some of the comm line but does not pull hard and only maintains what he believes is a steady tension. The night is black, the rain is coming down hard, and no one realizes that the grim reaper is moments away from claiming the life of this diver, a former teammate of mine...

Unbeknown to the diver, not all of the slack is being taken up by the tender, even though no slack is felt. Instead, the suction from the culvert pipe is pulling on the comm line. The tender does not realize that the diver has come in 100 feet and he has only retrieved 20-30 feet of comm rope.

As the diver swims towards the tender, the com line is being pulled in the proper direction, then moments later, the comm line is pulling the diver straight down, towards the suction at the end of the culvert pipe. The comm line has been pulled inside the 16 inch drain pipe. The diver struggles to pull his line free and places his feet towards the bottom so he can pull the line out of the culvert pipe. He feels the force of the suction and it pulls one of his fins off of his foot. He screams out in surprise...

This diver was my former teammate not because he died in the line of duty that night, but because I had retired off of the department months earlier. So the diver did not die as this incident played out, even though it was a close call.

The purpose of my story though is to portray a real life incident that affected a well trained team.

Had the situation been just slightly different, had the pipe been slightly larger in diameter, had the water level been slightly higher, had the discharge end of the pipe been slightly lower, a DELTA P scenario would have resulted and the only recourse for the diver would have been to QUICKLY disconnect from the comm line before being pulled into the pipe.

Unscrewing the lock on a carabiner, hoping that there would be enough slack to release the carabiner, hoping that the well trained team would be able to react fast enough, hoping that one of the cutting tools would sever the line in a split second ... none of those options would resolve the situation fast enough to prevent the certain death of the diver had the incident played out differently.

While the scenario I portrayed did not result in a fatality, public safety diver Arthur E. Schumacher was not so fortunate.

Arthur was searching around a vehicle that was located against a culvert pipe that passed under a roadway. Heavy rains and strong currents caused the vehicle to move miles downstream where is came to rest next to this culvert pipe. He searched around the vehicle and in a split second was pulled under the car by the force of the moving water finding the path of least resistance.

Arthur was a well trained diver and his team was well trained too. No one though had anticipated the scenario that played out. The tender tried to pull Arthur free and more teammates pulled frantically on Arthur's safety line too, all to no avail. Arthur had been pulled several feet into the culvert pipe and was trapped under the roadway. His regulator was torn from his mouth, his carabiner securely held him to his "safety" line and his knife remained secured in the sheath. In an instant though, Arthur Shumacher was dead and the well trained team could do nothing to save their beloved teammate.

Much later, when slack was given on the safety line, Arthur's body came to the surface at the the downstream end of the culvert pipe.

I realize there are a whole bunch of "ifs" here, but "if" Arthur had a quick release snap shackle, and "if" he had the proper reflexive action and training to release out of the system, he could likely be alive today. He may have died also... we will never know... but the fact is, he did not have an option to save himself.

There are other instances where the benefits of the quick release snap shackle are more apparent and I don't want to bore everyone with tales of death. The facts speak for themselves and evidence supports the conclusion that a quick release snap shackle offers a viable option, and we know it to be a better option, for the diver to extricate himself from life or death entanglement.

Certainly, there are exceptions to every rule and we also know that a quick release snap shackle is not suggested in overhead environments and under ice. In those situations, jettisoning from the search line will not result in a better situation in nearly all cases, so that is when a locking carabiner (possibly two) are considered.

...And to answer the question regarding the full face mask being pulled from the face, that is unlikely if the diver is using the "high use connector" (a/k/a/ HUC) and the Marsh Marine Connectors. In those instances the connectors will part (usually) before the mask is pulled from the face. With the AMP style connectors they will likely break free (with damage) and/or the mask may be pulled away. We encourage divers to manually disconnect from comm line from the mask after notifying the tender, when the situation dictates. A busted comm system or a diver having to hold his breath a few extra seconds is preferred to death because the diver is held underwater.

I hope this answers the question(s).

Regards,

Blades Robinson
 
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IT would be a big deal if you are in an overhead environment ...

Man, I am glad I covered that in my last post... And CCTX50 is correct. In an overhead environment, it could be a big deal!

Again though, I will mention that the chances of the quick release snap shackle coming undone by accident is VERY unlikely. I know that thousands of dives have been done by divers using quick release snap shackles and I know of ZERO instances where they have opened by accident. Other divers on this forum (also having considerable experience) have reported zero problems.

Again, a prudent diver (like CCTX50) will conduct a risk/benefit analysis and most are likely to determine that the quick release snap shackle offers a safer alternative in most situations.
 
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