Instructors doing "trust me" dives.

[Rhone Man]

Such a spread of potential situations, it is hard to generalise.

• Hypothetical: Is going a little deeper, or in water a little murkier, or colder, than someone is really used to going a "trust me" dive? Not such a biggie.
• Hypothetical: Putting unqualified divers on Nitrox where there is a hard floor of 50 feet is a "trust me" dive, and I have seen people freak on SB at that very suggestion, but how much risk is there really?
• Real: I was once asked to lead two less experienced divers on a dive in a cavern I had never been in before (neither they nor I were cavern trained). We had all trusted the instructor who set up the groups; coming back I was pretty upset about it; I felt I had been really misled as to how potentially risky the dive was - the others who went with me just couldn't really see what all the fuss was about.
• Real: A friend of mine, who is not cave qualified, has been taken cave diving by her boyfriend and his cave diving instructors in DR. That strikes me as pretty unambiguously over the line.

I guess what it comes back to for me is 'How much trouble would the person really be in if the person leading the "trust me" dive magically disappeared?' When does expanding your experiences under supervision stop, and inappropriate "trust me" dives start?

 

[Jax]

Is it a "trust me" dive if the DM is taking you on a pinnacle dive?

Sooo . . . back to my original question. If it is a personal pinnacle dive, is it a "trust me" dive? Or is it simply a pinnacle dive with a guide?

 

[Superlyte27]

Some of you know this story... Early in my cave diving hobby, I followed two "friends" an hour into a cave. We never put down a reel or a line arrow. Being the newest diver, I reached thirds first. I called the dive and our leader led us out... we made a circle for about 20-25 minutes seriously lost. I knew the line arrows were going the wrong direction, but still continued to follow. When Diver #2 finally realized we were lost and conveyed that info to me I started crying. I knew the math and knew it was gonna be close. I was still crying when I finally got undressed at the truck. I'm not sure if the tears were for fear or for guilt. I had already figured out the best way to kill the other two divers for their air with the least amount of loss.

I don't do trust me dives anymore.

 

[marinediva]

Once I came across some fans, they were enormous at 34M, and knew a little extra and they were going to be even bigger. I was with some experienced divers at the time.
I started to arrange a solo dive to 50m to get the photos.
Had a small pony with me and an extra tank which I left at 30m. The plan was for a quick down to depth, get the shot, and back up to a staged exit starting at 15M total dive time 20 minutes.
An experienced diver got wind of my plan and begged me to let him go with him.
I refused, needless to say, he got the grumps, spent the rest of his time at the resort trying to find out where I had done the dive off the local DM. No one would tell him.

 

[tkdgodess]

If by pinnacle you mean highest point of achievement or success..I would not consider a dive done without any of my own input or planning a pinnacle dive. I would have to plan and execute it myself to be considered a pinnacle of my own diving achievement. For example during Tec training, I am taken to my personal deepest depth... it is NOT my pinnacle because it is a training dive...yes I "planned" the dive, but I did so under supervision of an instructor, when I execute that dive on my own, with a buddy of equal training, then it is really a personal achievement. Did I "follow" that tec instructor, is it a trust me dive...? No. I believe I am demonstrating to someone with qualificiations that I can complete those skills to be qualified, otherwise I would not do them.

When you said pinnacle dive, I literally thought you meant diving on a pinnacle. A pinnacle dive is currently my own highest point of achievement. A Pinnacle dive in 44F water in a storm in the north pacific, follow the kelp down to 40' and start the dive....

 

[BTravlin]

With somewhere around 40 dives under my belt I did Punta Sur in Coz. Deep swim through exiting at about 115-120. Didn't have my light out and on when we entered the swim through and the lighting was dim but passable. Toward the end it got dark and all I could see was the yellow fins of the diver in front of me until I couldn't. One moment there they are and the next they're gone. Momentary panic but a few seconds later light shines up from below and I see the way out.

In hindsight I wasn't really experienced enough to do the dive at that time and the DM did not do a good enough dive briefing. I know better now when it comes to trust me dives.

 

[TSandM]

My 14th dive went to 130 feet on an Al80 in Molokini. I had no business being there (nor did the instructor who led me there know I had my AOW and Deep specialties) but I thought it was okay because, after all, he WAS an instructor. Nothing bad happened.

I took a visiting diver on a 100 foot dive on the basis of the training I knew he had had, and without having dived with him before. We ran into some issues that didn't cause any trouble but I believe caused him a fair amount of stress, and I felt bad at the end of the dive. I don't do that any more.

 

[kathydee]

There were a number of frightening “Trust Me Dives” while traveling through SE Asia & Central America during my first several years of diving (before encountering DIR training and learning strong safety ethics).

In Bali Indonesia, we were introduced to Scuba by a DM who took us on 7 DSD's for $15 each down to 75 ft. We had no clue it was wrong. When we later showed up for OW class, the IDC was not thrilled with our log books.

In Malaysia Borneo, Turtle Cave a 20 something new DM lead well beyond the cavern warning sign into a 60ft deep cavern penetration without decent lights (I had 36 dives at the time and still thought DM’s were gods, so didn't know to challenge her lead).

At several sites in the Philippines, It took skill and knowledge to read & hit the radical down currents just right or you wouldn't make it. Many had perished at the sites. The guides were Instructors/technical divers or technical instructors - One dive didn't go as well as expected & we could have easily lost someone - I'd count these as “trust me dives”



There was quite a bit of peer pressure to join other "trust me" dives but I didn't.

In the Philippines a wreck instructor wanted to lead a penetration on a single Al80 into wreck passages around 100ft+ deep when the exit was not visible & single file was required. I had a sense that it was the warm up/test penetration for greater challenges that day.

In Sumatra Indonesia. The DM was annoyed when I refused to drop down to 180ft on air into canyons known for unpredictable currents. The nearest chamber was a 14 hour+ journey.

Many DM's and instructors offered dives which maxed out quite a bit below 125 ft on air.



I would not do any of this now without proper training and/or planning.

 

[Jax]

If by pinnacle you mean highest point of achievement or success..I would not consider a dive done without any of my own input or planning a pinnacle dive. I would have to plan and execute it myself to be considered a pinnacle of my own diving achievement. For example during Tec training, I am taken to my personal deepest depth... it is NOT my pinnacle because it is a training dive...yes I "planned" the dive, but I did so under supervision of an instructor, when I execute that dive on my own, with a buddy of equal training, then it is really a personal achievement. Did I "follow" that tec instructor, is it a trust me dive...? No. I believe I am demonstrating to someone with qualificiations that I can complete those skills to be qualified, otherwise I would not do them.

When you said pinnacle dive, I literally thought you meant diving on a pinnacle. A pinnacle dive is currently my own highest point of achievement. A Pinnacle dive in 44F water in a storm in the north pacific, follow the kelp down to 40' and start the dive....

So let us define a pinnacle dive as, "a dive that is within one's training and certification, but surpasses previous experience".

If a DM briefs the dive and it is a pinnacle dive for you, is it a "trust me" dive? Anyone?

.

 

[Superlyte27]

In my experience, A trust me dive is that which you could not likely survive if the person you are trusting died/disappeared/screwed up.