Riding marine life

What is your opinion on large marine life interaction? Choose 1

  • What is wrong with riding a whale shark, manta or turtle? They probably like it.

    Votes: 21 9.8%
  • Touching is okay but riding? Nah.

    Votes: 43 20.1%
  • Riding, even touching, is a definite no no.

    Votes: 95 44.4%
  • Marine life molesters should be shot, then reported to the authorities.

    Votes: 55 25.7%

  • Total voters
    214

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I certainly have looked under more than a few cucumbers and pin cushion starfish looking for shrimps. Maybe I am a hypocrite but I see a difference in the gentle handling of things like that and the grabbing of a whaleshark's fin to go on a ride.

I'll admit that the wording of my poll is both poor and biased. I think it will still give me an idea of what people think though.

Here in Maui County we have a dolphin that would most likely enjoy taking a diver for a ride. I kid you not; the story is that she is a "retired" US Marine. Her unit was decomissioned during the Clinton years. One day over in Kaneohe Bay they just stopped feeding her and ignored her. Eventually she made it to Maui Nui.






In Hawaii, according to Earth Trust

Earth Trust:
Adults range in size from seven to eleven feet in length and weigh between 600 and 850 pounds

She is a full grown adult and you know how things look bigger to us underwater...

After looking at the pictures I took and hearing the stories about her that I now have, I will go for the offered ride if she ever gives me another chance! :D
 
I am a diver and I have touched critters
wow that felt good... do I have to take a 10 step or 20 step program now?
I had contact with a sea urchin that did not initiate the contact :shocked: I felt and still feel the action was justified. I picked up the urchin took it to a diver who thought it was appropriate to feed urchins to other critters and got her to hold it in her hand... her eyes got very big when she felt it moving around in her hand! She had never thought of the urchin as a living creature she was killing by breaking it up with her knife. She NEVER killed another Urchin and that one was put back where it came from.

I have allowed an octopus to stroke and feel my camera. I have allowed an octopus to stroke my hand. I have rested my bare hand near a cleaning station and allowed the cleaners to investigate it.

I do not lay on the coral, chase or harass critters but I will happily stay still long enough for them to get comfortable with my presence. If they approach me I will allow them to control the interaction.

I would never dream of forcing myself on a creature or "riding it" altho what Zendiver described is perfectly acceptable in my book!

Life is not black and white thank goodness there are all sorts of tones in between. I couldn't fill in the Poll because it did not allow me to express my belief that it is sometimes ok to touch the critters if you do it with knowledge, care and concern for the creature involved.

For the purists... who take only pictures and leave only bubbles. When was the last time you spoke with a marine biologist to find out what impact your strobes and flashes have on the creatures you take pictures of? :no: are you POSITIVE you aren't stressing them or effecting their eyesight long enough to make them more susceptible to their predators?:shocked2:
 
I don't play with a Giant Pacific Octopus because you never know how things could turn out. The divers that shot that video got lucky that the animal did not ended up probing them further to their masks or regulators or come out from its den. They took their chances, I guess.
Every time you go diving you take your chances. Some of the people in that video have been interacting with octopus for years ... some pretty amazing interactions, actually ... and sometimes they do get a mask or reg pulled off. But to my knowledge, neither the animals nor the divers have ever been injured by it. And frankly, these are some of the most environmentally consciencious divers I know.

Ironically ... or perhaps not ... these same divers often decide not to visit a certain den because too many divers are "loving them to death" ... you don't have to touch an animal to stress it out, and if you don't know how to approach it you will often be perceived as a predator. Pay attention to how the animal reacts to you. If it recoils, or in the case of a GPO, if it turns white, leave it alone! On the other hand, if it reaches a tentacle out and starts feeling your person, it's trying to figure out what you are ... probably looking for food. Let it do the probing ... don't grab or pull. Speaking of food ... what I really object to is people who bring food down for the critters. You shouldn't feed them ... they're capable of finding their own, and human feeding does change their behavior ... sometimes in disturbing ways. It's especially disturbing when people feed them stuff like hot dogs. My goodness ... leave those things for the barbeque or baseball game.

I used to volunteer at the local aquarium where in some pools visitors are allowed to touch all the invertebrates but not the fish because, for those you don't know it already, their skins is covered with a mucus that protect them from getting sick. Now I watched the divers feeding the wolf eels and they did not seem to have a problem in stroking them like they were cats. So now I am kind of confused...Does the wolf eel not have that mucous after all? Or is it a tougher fish that can cope with less mucus on its skin? Ma!:confused:

You volunteered at the aquarium ... think about it ... how do you suppose those animals got there? Certainly nobody "talked" them into going. They were captured. And in the case of octopus, that capture involved some pretty intensive handling.

As for animals like wolfies and octos, think about where they live. They're constantly cramming their bodies inside of holes in the rocks. If they were so fragile, don't you suppose they'd be scraping mucus off on those rocks when they stuffed themselves into a hole that's smaller than their body?

I've had wolfies and octos wrap themselves around my body before ... they don't seem terribly concerned about the contact. Sometimes I am ... but they don't seem terribly concerned about what I think either.

If YOU don't want to touch, then don't. I'll respect your choice. But please don't think you have a right to impose your choices on others ... especially those with many times your knowledge and experience. The people in that video have been interacting with and photographing marine animals since years before you ever thought about scuba diving. Maybe ... just maybe ... they know what they're doing.

BTW - ever watch a Jacques Cousteau video? I suppose you would have wanted to put him out of business too ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
If feeding changes the behavior of individual marine critters, isn't it likely that riding them does too? Whether they like it and want more or hate it and try to avoid divers, isn't it bad for other divers?
 
Actually, it sounds sorta' fun to me. And SeaWorld does that sort of thing every day.

What intrigues me is the way some people try to confer human-like emotions, mental capacity, and sensibilities to lower life forms. It's almost as if these creatures might become "offended" at being treated in such a manner, which, of course, is laughable. You can put me down on your "poll" as a write-in, "What's the Problem?".
The creatures living in seaworld is not wild animals. They interact with their human handlers/trainers every day and is as such accustomed to it and they might even have been born in captivity and "raised" by humans.

Before you call animal emotions "laughable" you should look into the classification of homo sapiens. Guess what? YOURE A BLOODY MAMMAL!
Basic emotions as fear and by extension the fight or flight response is an instinct, not an intellectual decision.

Furthermore you can endanger both the creatures AND YOURSELF by trying to "hitch a ride" with them. The whaleshark skin is like grinding paper and can give you some real nasty cuts and your scuba gear isnt free of sharp edges that can return the favour.
Dolphins can and do attack humans in the water if they feel threatened and you can ask Steve Irwin "whats the big deal" with getting too close to large rays.

And thats before weve even started looking into microorganisms on you and the wildlife that you and the wildlife isnt accustomed to deal with..


If the critters want to nibble at my bare skin or touch me up to find out what I am, Ill let them - But I definetly wont chase down critters and risk injury both to them and myself over it. As far as hunting sea critters goes, thats a somewhat different topic, but as long as you do it humanely, sustainably and intend to make good use of it thats quite ok too. I dont believe vacuum-packed steaks grow on trees either..
 
I must say I am disinclined to support feeding critters and upsetting balances I don't understand. I feel it is inappropriate to feed living creatures to other living creatures. I have found creatures in the process of eating live prey. I felt sorry for the prey but recognized the predator needed to eat and the prey was caught fair and square so to speak. Feeding creatures cheeze whiz, hot dogs and other human food that isn't even terribly healthy for us CAN'T be healthy for creatures not meant to digest it!

I would not support a shark feeding operation personally but I don't fish either. Nope I don't tend to eat fish much either even tho I know it is healthier for me to do so. I do not question other's right to fish, eat fish or attend fish feeding operations run by "qualified" individuals as long as they are not breaching any laws. Here it is illegal to take any fish or lobsters on scuba.

I cringe when I read about the lion fish eradication efforts BUT I recognize it is a necessity because they are in an ecosystem they do not belong in. As in the question of 'to touch or not to touch" I don't think there is a dead set black/white or right/wrong on the issue of feeding fish wither. I have been known to "feed the fish" in the past but it was an involuntary act:vomit:
 
I cringe when I read about the lion fish eradication efforts BUT I recognize it is a necessity because they are in an ecosystem they do not belong in.

I put the Lionfish in a different category, and in a different way. Lionfish eradication techniques are just a way of proving that the spirit of King Cnut is alive and well. It is a truly hopeless exercise, but it lets otherwise civilised dive instructors turn themselves into hunters for a day with a clear conscience that they are acting for some "greater good".

The Lionfish problem, as any biologist will tell you, will only get resolved when they hit equilibrium within the food chain. They will affect their ecosystem markedly, but they will not destroy it, and their population will eventually hit a plateau. In the meantime, sending out a few divers with pole spears to about 0.1% of their aggregated habitat on a periodic basis will not change a damn thing.
 
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I have to admit that once I touched a manatee that came up to me. I've been to Stingray City and have enjoyed the interaction with the stingrays . Once I was scared & surprised when a 6ft. moray crawled into my BC and then swam back into a cave...I touched a part of it's side. I have been to dive with the Mantas off the Big Island and several out of the 13 we saw ran into me while doing loops. I have dove with sharks off New Britain and had to literally hit the sharks away as they seemed quite aggresive we had to leave. I've seen pederson shrimp and watched them climb onto my hand and appear to clean it. I've had more than one grouper cuddle up to me off Little Cayman. I've had a remora try to attach itself to me. I've picked up a sea cucumber.
Now I'm not one that would ride a turtle or a Manta, but seeing all those beautiful animals come up to me or approach me was a wonderful experience.
My most memorable experience came when a dolphin interacted with my wife and I off Cayman Brac actually coming up to us and touching us and then off the Big Island of Hawaii 21 dolphins swam with my wife and I while we snorkeled with them for over an hour ...they always stayed an arm length away. It was beautiful.
While diving I try to be an observant diver but have enjoyed the interaction and see nothing wrong with interacting. I don't seek out a turtle to ride but I've been close enough to touch their shell.

I love the scuba police (blue light) idea:D
 
If feeding changes the behavior of individual marine critters, isn't it likely that riding them does too? Whether they like it and want more or hate it and try to avoid divers, isn't it bad for other divers?

Of course it is ... but whatever your intent was in creating this thread, riding marine critters isn't what it turned out to be about. Your wording of the poll choices ... particularly the last two choices, where nearly three-quarters voted ... suggests to me that you didn't intend to limit it to riding sea creatures.

Then look at some of the comments people have posted here ... I find it pretty sad.

Whatever your personal feelings, wanting to impose your personal views on others only makes them not take you seriously. Wishing ill of those who disagree with you only makes you a whole bunch of enemies.

Is that what you think scuba diving should be about?

I'm dumbfounded. I had thought better of the majority of ScubaBoardans.

Threads like this one make me realize what an intolerant society we have become ... and how simplistic people really want their choices in life to be.

How many of those who voted in the last category eat seafood, I wonder ... and what do they think should happen to the folks who put it on their table?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Bob, when someone is exercising their personal choice makes my dives worse or more dangerous, I will likely speak up. At worst, that only makes me as selfish as the other party. The other day I was helping a photographer in a photo competition. Another competitor who is a well known photographer with thousands of dives was kicking sand up into the current and messing up shots for everyone on a tiny dive site. I banged my tank once and just pointed to his fins. After the dive, he has overheard saying he thought I was an ass. It's funny because during the dive, I KNEW he was an ass. :p

Yes, I already admitted that my wording was very poor and biased as well as that I itouch some things certain ways often. My point, however, was to discuss the riding of the big animals and hopefully convince anyone without a preconceived opinion either way - that it really is wrong.
 

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