No tables no buddy breathing?

[tstormdiver]

I don't have my manual at hand to check the publication date - perhaps there's a newer version my dive shop didn't have yet...?

That's quite possible. The manuals we get for our shop do have the tables in the back of the book.

 

[Islandheart]

When I was first certified 39 years ago...... Yes almost 40 big ones, we had just switched into single hose regulators.
Harnesses were giving way to back-packs with tank bands, I valves to J's and then to K's, depth gauges of all designs, all of these advances have improved diving, less stress, more comfort...... More Fun.

The decision to not teach tables and embrace advancing technology has been a long time in the works guys.....

As instructors we teach skills and the "reason" why.

Being a PADI-SSI instructor, alternate air sources such as air-2 and/or Octos have different routines of use.
Some shops that are big on Tech equipment again push one over the other. How many of you dive using both?

I'm also a Handicap Scuba Instructor where the real deal Buddy-Breathing is a requirement, not just alternate air source.

Different clubs, different rules.

Myself, I teach, computers and the tables they are based on, inform students about the rRDPml, air sharing using using both alternate air sources, free flow breathing and yes buddy breathing.
I also dive with an Air2 and Octo, 2 dive tools, a safety saucage, mirror, whistle and light...... And yes also a snorkel

So where do you go from here.....

 

[tstormdiver]

Interesting indeed. I never thought of that for diving with the disabled, but that's an excellent point. I am very seriously looking at learning to teach the disabled in the near future. Yes, I do know how to buddy breathe. In OW I was only shown how & did not do it. Once I started training in technical diving, it was mandatory. In fact we had to swim 4 pool lengths with no mask, in full technical rig, while buddy breathing. Not easy,.... especially during turn arounds. I do demonstrate the buddy breathing technique to the students & allow them to do it 1 on 1 with me, if they so choose to. As for integrated alternate air sharing, we do teach the student that have it, how to use it, or if they decide to get one after the class, our LDS will give a free pool session to instruct them on its use. Our LDS teaches donation of the primary regulator, while the donor takes either the integrated air source or a secondary regulator on a bungee'd necklace, since this will work with most any configuration. We also teach free flowing regulator breathing, as the local waters here can be & do become very cold at depth & in the winter. Here it is usually not a matter of if a free flow will happen, but rather when it will.

 

[jrossjr79]

Wow, I was certified around 15 years ago through SSI. I know I was taught the buddy breathe and the tables. Sad how things change the more technology we evolve. Its almost like we dumb our selves down for the ease of a computer.

 

[tstormdiver]

Personally, I would not say all change is bad. I won't say it is always good either, but the sport would die if it stagnated.

 

[jrossjr79]

Personally, I would not say all change is bad. I won't say it is always good either, but the sport would die if it stagnated.

I will agree that if it stagnated the sport would die, which is why I like the idea they teach the computers, not to happy they dont make it a mandatory to do tables anymore though. You always need to be prepared I just dont think it is proper back up planning when they dont make tables mandatory.

Which is why when my kids are of age to do the jr classes that I will personally make sure they know how to do the tables properly.

 

[Cyprian]

I will agree that if it stagnated the sport would die, which is why I like the idea they teach the computers, not to happy they dont make it a mandatory to do tables anymore though. You always need to be prepared I just dont think it is proper back up planning when they dont make tables mandatory.

Which is why when my kids are of age to do the jr classes that I will personally make sure they know how to do the tables properly.

Well said, I agree completely.

A couple of my kids may get certified in the early part of next year and I will teach them the tables regardless of whether class requires them or not. I say may get certified because I am going to let them try a discover scuba class first to see if they like it. I won't push them into anything that they do not want to do.

 

[danvolker]

Overall, I am very impressed with SSIs training program. I have been diving lately with many very well trained SSI divers in a local quarry. I have an ancient NAUI certification and am probably an old crumungeon, but I still believe that learning the tables AND buddy breathing are a good idea.

I have heard the arguments against both and have to politely disagree. I have been diving for over 26 years and had a diver with 30 more years experience than me tell me that he wont teach buddy breathing because he doesnt want someone "grabbing his primary out of his mouth".

Well, Im not an instructor but I can see his point. However, it seems to me that teaching buddy breathing just adds one more tool to the diver's skill set and that can never be a bad thing. What do you do if the octopus stinks or just fails? Its not used very often by most divers, as we usually only take a couple of breaths off of it before we enter the water. I will teach my newly certified son how to buddy breathe so at least he has been exposed to the skill.

As far as not teaching the tables....complete rubbish. My son's instructor insisted that even though SSI did not require it, that she would include it in his training. That helped me confirm my opinion that she was a quality instructor. If you want to know why teaching the tables is critical see the discussion currently happening in the dive computer forum about whether or not a computer is a good idea.

I welcome open debate on the subject.

SIUED

Next year they will have a new BOW criteria....If you can successfully reach into your pocket and pull out a credit card, you have all the skills you need to get the new BOW diver certification. If you want more skills, you will build on the credit card skills some more, buying the AOW certification, which will also include demonstrating that you can swim underwater in a pool with a scuba tank on. Don't worry, you won't have to go all the way to the end of the pool.
The same industry people pushing for these wonderful changes to diving, will also be helping the revenue potential of the Dept of Transportation, as they develope a special Drivers License for Blind People....after all, it is terrible to discriminate..Everyone "should" be able to drive and pay license fees for it!


DanV

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I dont ever plan on diving without a computer again

But how about for someone who "only" shore dives, mostly here off Maui? There is really only one nearly 100' max depth shore site and a handful of "about" 60' max. 99% of the good shore diving here is max 50' and 50' deep is quite some distance off shore. Many divers who are in no hurry will only rarely see 50' max depth.

I don't care whether you are trained computers or tables; I think when you really understand NDL's you should realize that "most" of the worlds recreational diving does not require anything more than coming back with air.

Both divers should be heading to the surface in a safe manner.

Consider again the above "Maui" shore diver. Like the majority here, I tie my flag off not far from where I submerge. If the gear malfunction happens at the farthest point away from the flag, one "prudent" interpretation of "abort dive" might be "return to flag" (as long as within thirds).

 

[jrossjr79]

Next year they will have a new BOW criteria....If you can successfully reach into your pocket and pull out a credit card, you have all the skills you need to get the new BOW diver certification. If you want more skills, you will build on the credit card skills some more, buying the AOW certification, which will also include demonstrating that you can swim underwater in a pool with a scuba tank on. Don't worry, you won't have to go all the way to the end of the pool.
The same industry people pushing for these wonderful changes to diving, will also be helping the revenue potential of the Dept of Transportation, as they develope a special Drivers License for Blind People....after all, it is terrible to discriminate..Everyone "should" be able to drive and pay license fees for it!


DanV

Sadly that is what I am thinking it is coming down to, I already heard one of the major certificate scuba services is already doing it like that, I wont say who, but it is what I have heard.