GUE/DIR/WKPP vs the world?

[boulderjohn]

Dan,
I am GUE trained already: T1 and C2. I have additional trimix training with another agency. If I had a permit I wouldn't allow anyone to tag onto it either, they can get their own. But please stop telling everyone who is not part of WKPP that they are DIW, too stupid, jackassery, or lazy to dive Wakulla. You are generating nothing but additional animosity for WKPP and by extension GUE.

I can't see how my posts could possibly be percieved in this manner....
I was offering my opinion, that there is a population in America that enjoys behavior similar to what is seen on the TV show "jackass'...and, there are people in America that don't understand personal responsibility ( the suit over a coffee burning incident example I used), and that do not believe in earning things--they feel "entitled".

To me, this is very far away from what you are suggesting I was doing. Maybe you just read a post out of context, but I do not see how I could have generated such an unintended message.

This is just an observation from someone who has read this thread with interest but who has no previous experience with this debate whatsoever.

You may have not intended to imply that everyone who is not WKPP/GUE is riffraff and should be barred from diving these areas for their own good, but that is exactly the message this reader got.

And BTW, the rest of your post that I quoted partially above does not help change that perception as much as you probably think.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I can't see how my posts could possibly be percieved in this manner....
I was offering my opinion, that there is a population in America that enjoys behavior similar to what is seen on the TV show "jackass'...and, there are people in America that don't understand personal responsibility ( the suit over a coffee burning incident example I used), and that do not believe in earning things--they feel "entitled".

To me, this is very far away from what you are suggesting I was doing. Maybe you just read a post out of context, but I do not see how I could have generated such an unintended message.



There is a big stretch between my saying that the state is correct in making certain that those who have access to pristine and dangerous areas are well screened....and the suggestion that I don't want you to dive there....

...If you have the skills and training, there should be a path. Whether it is via WKPP, or there becomes some offshoot program--- or some other entity that can screen and mentor and enforce safety protocols.....I absolutely would favor this.

You keep mentioning training and credentials, what other training does one need to safely dive Wakulla? What makes it any more dangerous than the other thousand or so caves in the state?

Answer this. Do you believe someone with nss-cds or nacd full cave can safely dive Wakulla?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

with some helium

 

[Crush]

You keep mentioning training and credentials, what other training does one need to safely dive Wakulla? What makes it any more dangerous than the other thousand or so caves in the state?

An answer was provided here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5846343-post18.html. It stated:

Exactly. First, after you've received the appropriate level of training, you have to be recommended to become part of the project. Then you have to work for a couple years as surface support before you'll even be allowed in the water. Then you become habitat support (transport food, water, etc to the decompression habitats). Very few divers get to do much more than that. And even the people who are part of the project can only dive the sites when the entire group is there. You can't just wake up one day and decide you want to go dive Wakulla.

That's a lot of work to "earn" the "privilege" of diving there.

Answer this. Do you believe someone with nss-cds or nacd full cave can safely dive Wakulla?

Well, first off you would still need a recommendation. Then you make sandwiches (surface support) for a couple of years before you are allowed into the water,...

 

[boulderjohn]

[/B]
You keep mentioning training and credentials, what other training does one need to safely dive Wakulla? What makes it any more dangerous than the other thousand or so caves in the state?

Answer this. Do you believe someone with nss-cds or nacd full cave can safely dive Wakulla?

An answer was provided here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5846343-post18.html.

Unless I am mistaken, Kevin was not asking about the current rules for getting on board with WKPP. He was asking what special requirements should be in place if Wakulla were to be opened to the rest of the cave diving community and why it should be treated any differently from any other similar system.

 

[Crush]

Unless I am mistaken, Kevin was not asking about the current rules for getting on board with WKPP. He was asking what special requirements should be in place if Wakulla were to be opened to the rest of the cave diving community and why it should be treated any differently from any other similar system.

It seems that the special requirements that are in place to dive Wakulla are that you have to get on board with WKPP.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

It seems that the special requirements that are in place to dive Wakulla are that you have to get on board with WKPP.

John is right, I was asking what he is talking about. He keeps stating he doesn't mind if people get the training, well what kind of training do we need? There is no danger there that we don't face in any other system. So I simply would like to hear Dans answer. We also dive where scientific monitoring equipment is in place, we don't touch it or disturb it. We have no interest in that stuff at all.

 

[lamont]

I can't see how my posts could possibly be percieved in this manner....
I was offering my opinion, that there is a population in America that enjoys behavior similar to what is seen on the TV show "jackass'...and, there are people in America that don't understand personal responsibility ( the suit over a coffee burning incident example I used), and that do not believe in earning things--they feel "entitled".

the hot coffee lawsuit is debatable:

Consumer Attorneys of California

it at least goes beyond the mischaracterization that its just a case of someone too stupid to understand that coffee is hot and take responsibility for themselves.

...

i will agree with you that people lack personal responsibility, but its the jackass cutting me off while yapping on his cellphone that i'd use as an example....

 

[Hetland]

There is an ongoing effort by the Wakulla County Dive Club to open Wakulla Spring (and others) to qualified divers ("qualified" is a debatable term, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it) regardless of what agency certified them. These would be non-scientific dives for the purpose of recreation. If you are interested in joining this fight, I suggest that you join the club, and/or contact a member for discussion on how you can help.

A number of folks have invested a very great deal of time, energy, and personal treasure into this effort. To date, and to the best of my knowledge, neither the WKPP or GUE has PUBLICLY opposed this campaign. As long as WKPP and GUE keep to themselves, I believe that we are doing them, and ourselves a disservice by dragging them into the fight. IF they decide to enter the ring, then we're prepared for that fight, but for now, our efforts are best directed towards the Wakulla community and the appropriate decision-makers.

Wakulla is big enough for all of us to share.

 

[Dive-aholic]

First, several posters in this thread have lamented about how rude and arrogant George was in the nineties, in discussions on the internet....You however, seem to think it is fine for you to be arrogant and insulting, far more so than you would EVER attempt in person...

I know Mat and he speaks his mind in person, too. And we still dive together.