Dangerous psychology- Diving beyond one's training

[dpaustex]

Seems to be a lot of back-and-forth on people trying to "one up" each other on the whys of accidents. Some say rules were violated.

The capacity of the human "fight or flight" response is strong. We've all had those "uh-oh" moments, in which we have to choke down our inate fear, before it turns to widespread panic, to get a situation under control. This is what classes like "stress and rescue" try and teach you - to deal with problems at depth, as they occur, and not let them "snowball".

But I would respectfully go to the saying "It's what you don't know you don't know". Read that carefully. It isn't a typo.

For instance, I can take a person in one of my classes and teach them how to breathe off a scuba unit in about 5 mins. However, they know zip about buoyancy, zip about the physiological properties of breathing compressed gas at depth, etc.

But throwing that same person into a 60-70 foot depth environment isn't safe. It's what they don't know that will kill them. They aren't even aware of all of the intricacies of their ignorance. They don't know how to avoid DCS/DCI, how not to get an AGE, etc. They MIGHT get away with it, for instance, following another diver who DOES know what they're doing, and why. But mimicking another's physical movements is not knowledge.

That same person, or any OWD, without knowledge of how quickly a silt-out can occur - and what to do about it (hope that line was strung; hope you know how to find that lost line; hope you know how to tie-off a jump line, etc.) - is what sets real world training scenarios apart from reading something in a book.

To my knowledge, no agency practices a real OOA situation. In my class, I explain to my students that I will let them experience what it really feels like to breathe a tank down to nothing, by turning off their air supply (this, with my alternate in their hand). Many are surprised.

But all of this "what if" belies the panic that many people that die experience. I mean why would they have an issue if it was "taught"? Unfortunately, fear often overrides reason. When was the last time you and your buddy actually practiced your rescue skills?

Just saying.

 

[billgraham]

Seems to be a lot of back-and-forth on people trying to "one up" each other on the whys of accidents. Some say rules were violated.

The capacity of the human "fight or flight" response is strong. We've all had those "uh-oh" moments, in which we have to choke down our inate fear, before it turns to widespread panic, to get a situation under control. This is what classes like "stress and rescue" try and teach you - to deal with problems at depth, as they occur, and not let them "snowball".

But I would respectfully go to the saying "It's what you don't know you don't know". Read that carefully. It isn't a typo.

For instance, I can take a person in one of my classes and teach them how to breathe off a scuba unit in about 5 mins. However, they know zip about buoyancy, zip about the physiological properties of breathing compressed gas at depth, etc.

But throwing that same person into a 60-70 foot depth environment isn't safe. It's what they don't know that will kill them. They aren't even aware of all of the intricacies of their ignorance. They don't know how to avoid DCS/DCI, how not to get an AGE, etc. They MIGHT get away with it, for instance, following another diver who DOES know what they're doing, and why. But mimicking another's physical movements is not knowledge.

That same person, or any OWD, without knowledge of how quickly a silt-out can occur - and what to do about it (hope that line was strung; hope you know how to find that lost line; hope you know how to tie-off a jump line, etc.) - is what sets real world training scenarios apart from reading something in a book.

To my knowledge, no agency practices a real OOA situation. In my class, I explain to my students that I will let them experience what it really feels like to breathe a tank down to nothing, by turning off their air supply (this, with my alternate in their hand). Many are surprised.

But all of this "what if" belies the panic that many people that die experience. I mean why would they have an issue if it was "taught"? Unfortunately, fear often overrides reason. When was the last time you and your buddy actually practiced your rescue skills?

Just saying.

Funny, I just had this discussion yesterday. My friend Roger was driving me to the airport in Panama City and were were talking about this topic. He's a commercial diver on the oil rigs in the gulf and also an avid cave diver. He's been doing that for a living for 40 something years and knows more about diving than we ever will. His opinion was that you could probably teach yourself open water diving in a lake someplace relatively safely, but that if there's one disclipine where you absolutely need instruction, it's cave diving.

On the second question, a friend had presented me with a new SMS 100 sidemount rig in exchange for a favor, and we did a quick dive to test it out. I was too close to flying to get into a long/deeper diver so we fooled around in the cavern in Jackson Blue. We popped up in an air pocket to talk and I said "Hey Roger, when was the last time you did a lights out/air share drill?" So we went back down, he gave me the out of air signal, I gave him the long hose reg in my mouth, we doused the lights and bumped out on the line. I hadn't done it in a long time and I could see how it wouldn't be so easy with a truly panicked diver.

 

[jewelofnile69]

Funny, I just had this discussion yesterday. My friend Roger was driving me to the airport in Panama City and were were talking about this topic. He's a commercial diver on the oil rigs in the gulf and also an avid cave diver. He's been doing that for a living for 40 something years and knows more about diving than we ever will. His opinion was that you could probably teach yourself open water diving in a lake someplace relatively safely, but that if there's one disclipine where you absolutely need instruction, it's cave diving.

On the second question, a friend had presented me with a new SMS 100 sidemount rig in exchange for a favor, and we did a quick dive to test it out. I was too close to flying to get into a long/deeper diver so we fooled around in the cavern in Jackson Blue. We popped up in an air pocket to talk and I said "Hey Roger, when was the last time you did a lights out/air share drill?" So we went back down, he gave me the out of air signal, I gave him the long hose reg in my mouth, we doused the lights and bumped out on the line. I hadn't done it in a long time and I could see how it wouldn't be so easy with a truly panicked diver.

Thanks for sharing, Bill. One thing my husband and I have been trying to do every dive (whether in a pool, lake, etc.) is some rescue skill at the end of the dive. While it isn't in a panicked state, I hope that if it ever comes to that at some point that we will at least be fresh on our skills and able to adopt a "fight" mentality instead of "flight" (as David alludes to above). Now, we have never dove anything more than a quick swim through and never would venture to unless we had training to do more than that. I have no desire to ever enter a cavern or cave.

I also believe that continued training is necessary. As was discussed in the lost diver thread this past week, we know that you aren't required CE courses for SCUBA. But I believe that just because you are trained doesn't mean you are up-to-speed. I have no problem taking a refresher course or working with a friend instructor on a regular basis to practice things. I'll spend the money...it might save my (or my husband's or friends') life.

 

[Peter69_56]

I also believe that continued training is necessary................................... I have no problem taking a refresher course or working with a friend instructor on a regular basis to practice things. I'll spend the money...it might save my (or my husband's or friends') life.

As long as it's quality training. I have seen significant training which I would call "training used as a cash cow to allow a dive centre to make money, just tick the boxes" rather than "Quality training". I am not happy to just spend money on training, I am however more than happy to spend money on "Quality Training". Also one cannot train out stupidity. I have seen long time dive instructors do stupid things such as continuing a dive even though they know they are extremely low on air, all to salvage a boat anchor and then run out of air in the process. A quick tank change would have resolved the risk (as they had already attached a SMB and line to it). What an example to show new students.

I am not impressed by a diver's list of certifications, I am however impressed by their ability, practical skill level and knowledge. As others have posted here, I too practice skills on a regular basis whilst diving. My theory is that if I practice long enough and often enough, should I need that skill to save my life or that of another diver, automation will kick in and it will just happen (all due to the practice). If automation doesnt kick in, at least I will have confidence to deal with the issue. I constantly remind students I am with to continue practicing the new skills after the training stops so they become proficient, I know most won't, however if the one student I get to continually practice has to use that skill in real life then I have done my job.

 

[billgraham]

As others have posted here, I too practice skills on a regular basis whilst diving. My theory is that if I practice long enough and often enough, should I need that skill to save my life or that of another diver, automation will kick in and it will just happen (all due to the practice). If automation doesnt kick in, at least I will have confidence to deal with the issue. I constantly remind students I am with to continue practicing the new skills after the training stops so they become proficient, I know most won't, however if the one student I get to continually practice has to use that skill in real life then I have done my job.

This is very true. The simplest things become nearly impossible when you're stressed out.

 

[txaggie08]

One thing I see manifesting here, quite prodigiously, is a syndrome we see a lot in the PSD(public safety diver) community.

There is such an IMMENSE amount of mis-education, or lack of education, on the difference between a basic open water dive above 100ft, and a technical dive at any depth in open water classes.

My most challenging dive by far was a body recovery, tethered in a 4-6 knot eddy current. Conditions were true blackout(I had a 400lumen twist on light on my BCD as a marker light for the remains.....my #2 diver didn't realize it was on, that's how muddied out the water was.), forcing us to run surface timers for air consumption. I hit the bottom, between a pair of submerged trees, and myself and another diver had to rig deceased remains for a lift and recovery. I was entrapped on my second solo descent after the remains slipped, and had to clear in blackout(we dive solo until another searcher is needed, but we also have surface communication ability, and a tether(typically)). The above dive is considered par for the course in our field. ROUTINELY, we see open water divers who "practice" attempt it as part of a VFD. Unfortunately a lot of them don't come back up, but most do, and they do not realize how ill prepared they trul where, and how close to the edge of disaster they came.

The referenced bounce dives are an excellent example. The divers knew just enough to have an idea(most likely by reading internet posts) of what they should be doing, and tried to mimic the behavior they have an idea is correct. They slipped through the VERY narrow envelop, and most likely are convinced they've had the education.

An unfortunate issue is the way in which the realities of technical diving have to be discussed. While some substantive information is talked about in the forum, I understand why many choose to either go behind the locked forums(I would very much like to read them, as PSD is a form of tech diving that in many ways is still evolving and changing. Many of the ideas and protocols we use with my VFD are taken from discussions of technical technique with tech oriented divers), or refuse to talk outside the "community". I find myself guilty of the same thing at times.

Reality checks need to be installed into the basic OW courses, and standards of training need to be raised. THAT in an of itself would stop some of the lack of respect for training. When the cards offered by PADI are essentially collectors items, it's hard for beginners to understand why the cards from the tech agencies are warranted.

 

[jewelofnile69]

As long as it's quality training. I have seen significant training which I would call "training used as a cash cow to allow a dive centre to make money, just tick the boxes" rather than "Quality training". I am not happy to just spend money on training, I am however more than happy to spend money on "Quality Training". Also one cannot train out stupidity. I have seen long time dive instructors do stupid things such as continuing a dive even though they know they are extremely low on air, all to salvage a boat anchor and then run out of air in the process. A quick tank change would have resolved the risk (as they had already attached a SMB and line to it). What an example to show new students.

I am not impressed by a diver's list of certifications, I am however impressed by their ability, practical skill level and knowledge. As others have posted here, I too practice skills on a regular basis whilst diving. My theory is that if I practice long enough and often enough, should I need that skill to save my life or that of another diver, automation will kick in and it will just happen (all due to the practice). If automation doesnt kick in, at least I will have confidence to deal with the issue. I constantly remind students I am with to continue practicing the new skills after the training stops so they become proficient, I know most won't, however if the one student I get to continually practice has to use that skill in real life then I have done my job.

Totally agree with you, Peter. I'm not going to just fork over money for the sake of it. I'm blessed that two of our good friends are what I would consider very good instructors that we dive with regularly. (I've known some bad instructors so I at least feel that I can spot the difference.) I don't really use a local LDS aside from fills and occasional other purchases that I would be giving money to just to "take a class" that may not do anything for me or may teach me bad habits. Thanks for your post!

 

[txaggie08]

Totally agree with you, Peter. I'm not going to just fork over money for the sake of it. I'm blessed that two of our good friends are what I would consider very good instructors that we dive with regularly. (I've known some bad instructors so I at least feel that I can spot the difference.) I don't really use a local LDS aside from fills and occasional other purchases that I would be giving money to just to "take a class" that may not do anything for me or may teach me bad habits. Thanks for your post!

I have to ask....are you familiar with the difference in the "card collection" classes taught by most agencies pre-tech levels, and the actual pass and fail classes taught by technical agencies? This attitude is exactly the one I'm talking about.....newer divers believing their experience in AOW and rescue translate into a tech class...

 

[Peter69_56]

I have to ask....are you familiar with the difference in the "card collection" classes taught by most agencies pre-tech levels, and the actual pass and fail classes taught by technical agencies? This attitude is exactly the one I'm talking about.....newer divers believing their experience in AOW and rescue translate into a tech class...

I am not familiar with the terms, however I do get your drift. Having completed both recreational courses and tech courses one sees and also appreciates the difference.

Also for me, recreational diving always has a relatively safe out when things get difficult or things go wrong, go to the surface at a controlled rate following training techniques, with tech diving you mainly don’t have that option without significant danger and risk, things become much more serious, doing a controlled "runner" doesnt often save you from hurt. If you don't know your stuff, you can be in for a very very bad time. Death being one thing I don't wish to experience unless from very old age! Trainee tech divers should have a reasonable amount of varying experience, not to be a 25 dive newbie with a desire to dive deep. Experience is such a good trainer, but something we often wish to ignore in the rush to get there.

I think that doing course after course when having just 40-60 dives up, to me is ticking boxes. My personal view is that most divers who have say 30 dives up and apply to be a dive master are generally inexperienced for such a responsible task. To be good you need a lot of dives and more particularly varying experience with less than ideal situations. How many prospective DM have experienced very bad vis with cold water and surge often enough. Often they get their ticket at holiday resort areas with ideal conditions and often have never experienced or wish to experience less than ideal conditions. I do understand why they do it, as its easier and often done in a very short time to fit with a holiday. It suits obtaining a certification in the simplest way possible. I don't think the process has to be draconian but it should be thorough and the student really must understand their responsibilities and where they can end up legally if things go badly wrong, never mind the personal guilt should one be involved in an incident.

Experience, continued practice and exposure to varying conditions. All good training aids to then support further training to venture ever deeper.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not trained in certification classes - true. Ignorant of those guidelines seems to be an assumption. Or are you claiming that these guidelines are a close held secret only divulged in certification classes?

There's a big difference ... no, an enormous chasm of difference ... between reading about the guidelines for cave diving and being able to execute the skills needed to follow them.

Even the cave diving classes can only prepare you for those skills to a certain degree. Wearing a blackout mask for a lost line drill is NOTHING like being in a complete siltout and having to find the line and make your way out of the cave. It's much easier to control your emotional state and breathing pattern (which changes your buoyancy control) when you're in a class, and know that even if you screw up, you'll still be safe. In the real world, you have to compartmentalize the emotional dragon that's trying to crawl up your arse and focus on what you need to do ... it's the difference between swimming out or having someone else come looking for your body.

Academic knowledge will only take you so far ... and it does nothing to control the dragon ... that comes with practice and experience ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)