Dangerous psychology- Diving beyond one's training

[billgraham]

There's a big difference ... no, an enormous chasm of difference ... between reading about the guidelines for cave diving and being able to execute the skills needed to follow them.

In the real world, you have to compartmentalize the emotional dragon that's trying to crawl up your arse and focus on what you need to do ... it's the difference between swimming out or having someone else come looking for your body.

Academic knowledge will only take you so far ... and it does nothing to control the dragon ... that comes with practice and experience ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This is the crux of it. What happens when you get that rush of adreneline? Here's another phrase that's going to piss everyone off: "Everything's great . . . until it's not . . ." What I mean is that emotionally, you could be having the best dive ever and that can change into terror in a heartbeat. What you do next depends on your training.

 

[redacted]

No doubt, most (all) folks would benefit from a well qualified instructor. And some folk are probably incapable of approaching such an environment without the security of some trusted hand holder. But there are also some folks who will face a serious threat to their well-being with surprising calm. That does not mean they are reckless thrill seekers. Just that they are capable of fully rational responses to challenging situations without the threat of panic.

 

[tstormdiver]

And some folk are probably incapable of approaching such an environment without the security of some trusted hand holder.

If a diver needs a "hand holder" then they are not ready for Open Water, much less technical diving. My cave instructor had one such student recently, 900 ft back in the cave. The student, on a simple air share drill, panicked, pushed & pinned his co- student/ buddy to the ceiling, then spat out his regulator. When the instructor pulled them apart & gave the panicked student his primary regulator, the panicked student then got the nstructor's arm into a death grip. After the instructor freed himself, The student completely shut down & would not swim. The instructor had to grab him by the manifold & swim him all the way out. When up on the surface the student admitted that he knew the instructor would get him out & not let him die. The instructor told him frankly, " I'm going to save your life right now. Pack up your stuff & go home,... you're done". This student depended on the instructor to get him out of his predicament. The student never realizing, that if he had his Full Cave card,... there IS generally no instructor to pull your fat out of the fire. If that student had been diving with only a buddy, there likely would have been at least 1 fatality, if not more.

But there are also some folks who will face a serious threat to their well-being with surprising calm. That does not mean they are reckless thrill seekers. Just that they are capable of fully rational responses to challenging situations without the threat of panic.

That calmness, coupled with proper procedure training & experience will often be the determining factor whether a diver survives a bad dive or not.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

And we see it happen too often. It takes time to hone skills after proper training.

This is the crux of it. What happens when you get that rush of adreneline? Here's another phrase that's going to piss everyone off: "Everything's great . . . until it's not . . ." What I mean is that emotionally, you could be having the best dive ever and that can change into terror in a heartbeat. What you do next depends on your training.

 

[jewelofnile69]

I have to ask....are you familiar with the difference in the "card collection" classes taught by most agencies pre-tech levels, and the actual pass and fail classes taught by technical agencies? This attitude is exactly the one I'm talking about.....newer divers believing their experience in AOW and rescue translate into a tech class...

Does it matter if I don't plan to do any technical diving or dive beyond my training? I guess I'm asking why are you asking? If you are asking me if I realize there is a difference between classes taught for recreational diving from agencies like PADI and technical diving courses, then yes, I understand there is a difference. I do NOT think AOW, rescue, etc, translate to any knowledge whatsoever about technical diving. And I don't plan to do any technical diving...I'll leave that up to the people that want to. I prefer to dive for recreation exclusively. I stay out of wrecks as I have no training in being them. I stay out of swim throughs that don't look like a super-quick one. Etc.

My point really is that just because you are certified in something that doesn't equate to actually retaining the skills to do so after doing something...especially if you've taken a break from it. I was trying to say that, for example, if we haven't dove in awhile and we are going to go on a dive trip, we contact one of our instructor buddies to meet us at the pool to review all of our skills. So, I'm not paying for another class just to pay for a class, I'm reassessing my knowledge of my skills before entering the ocean after having been away from it from awhile.

 

[Peter69_56]

Does it matter if I don't plan to do any technical diving or dive beyond my training? ................... I do NOT think AOW, rescue, etc, translate to any knowledge whatsoever about technical diving. And I don't plan to do any technical diving...I'll leave that up to the people that want to. I prefer to dive for recreation exclusively. I stay out of wrecks as I have no training in being them. I stay out of swim throughs that don't look like a super-quick one. Etc.

My point really is that just because you are certified in something that doesn't equate to actually retaining the skills to do so after doing something...especially if you've taken a break from it. I was trying to say that, for example, if we haven't dove in awhile and we are going to go on a dive trip, we contact one of our instructor buddies to meet us at the pool to review all of our skills. So, I'm not paying for another class just to pay for a class, I'm reassessing my knowledge of my skills before entering the ocean after having been away from it from awhile.

You may find in another few years you wish to dive somewhere like Truk Lagoon, and even if you decide not to penetrate the wrecks you might like to dive them externally. As they can be quite deep but still reachable easily on air you may chose to then try tech diving, simply to be able to dive them or stay a little longer rather than the perception that many divers have of tech diving which is that its a specialist class and you are "probably " doing something very special.

Then again if that doesnt float your boat, maybe you will just stay with what you now enjoy. I agree time away from performing tasks does mean ability to perform skills can be somewhat deminished, hence I dive regularly every year. Your decision to polish your skills is commendable as most would not bother.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Does it matter if I don't plan to do any technical diving or dive beyond my training? I guess I'm asking why are you asking? If you are asking me if I realize there is a difference between classes taught for recreational diving from agencies like PADI and technical diving courses, then yes, I understand there is a difference. I do NOT think AOW, rescue, etc, translate to any knowledge whatsoever about technical diving. And I don't plan to do any technical diving...I'll leave that up to the people that want to. I prefer to dive for recreation exclusively. I stay out of wrecks as I have no training in being them. I stay out of swim throughs that don't look like a super-quick one. Etc.

My point really is that just because you are certified in something that doesn't equate to actually retaining the skills to do so after doing something...especially if you've taken a break from it. I was trying to say that, for example, if we haven't dove in awhile and we are going to go on a dive trip, we contact one of our instructor buddies to meet us at the pool to review all of our skills. So, I'm not paying for another class just to pay for a class, I'm reassessing my knowledge of my skills before entering the ocean after having been away from it from awhile.

If everyone took your approach, we wouldn't be having threads like this one. Unfortunately, many people have a tendency to consider themselves far more capable than they actually are ... and sometimes the consequences of that assessment ruin not only their day, but that of everyone else around them. You don't have to be involved in an accident to suffer from one. I've known people who just happened to be on the same boat as someone who died on scuba, and it affected them profoundly ... even years later.

Granted, training isn't a guarantee that a diver won't be involved in an accident ... or won't know how to successfully assist someone who is ... but it increases the odds of a happier outcome considerably. It always boils down to how much risk you're willing to take ...

... Bob (Grateful DIver)

 

[billgraham]

No doubt, most (all) folks would benefit from a well qualified instructor. And some folk are probably incapable of approaching such an environment without the security of some trusted hand holder. But there are also some folks who will face a serious threat to their well-being with surprising calm. That does not mean they are reckless thrill seekers. Just that they are capable of fully rational responses to challenging situations without the threat of panic.

Well you're absolutely right. Edd told me that when he found the girl in Twin (her rocket scientist father and brother having made it out alive) she was standing calmly on a rock with her nose in an air pocket, and she still had gas left in her single 80. That's a calm response to a panic situation, but it doesn't change the fact that none of them would have been in danger if they had the training.

 

[boulderjohn]

...but it doesn't change the fact that none of them would have been in danger if they had the training.

...or if they had realized they did not have the proper training and not gone there in the first place.

 

[billgraham]

...or if they had realized they did not have the proper training and not gone there in the first place.

That being the point of this whole discussion!