So, just who is George Irvine III?????

[chillyinCanada]

You have been assimilated into the Borg. jk

 

[chrpai]

IMO, there are many ways and buoyancy, trim and non-silting propulsion ought to be standard at the O/W level. I've never taken a pro, cave, tech level course and yet I've mastered these as Lake Travis diving isn't going to be either safe or fun without them. It's a very silty limited vis environment that only goes from meh to bad to worse.

 

[nimoh]

I have to admit I find these discussions interesting, or perhaps I am just rubbernecking

I am curious though, can some list some of things that they dislike about the DIR system?

Obviously, if you are into sidemount, then it is fundamentally different. I have no problem with sidemount divers, for the ones that I know it works well for them, even though I haven't tried it myself. But if you are diving non-DIR backmounted doubles, what do you do differently and why?

I have no intention of refuting anything you say, just curious.

 

[chrpai]

I am curious though, can some list some of things that they dislike about the DIR system?

Well, I like 99%. But I do like to strap on my 40 and go for the occasional solo dive.

 

[-hh]

You would be amazed at how different George was in person on Diveboats in the 90's, or, even how he was on the Internet when discussing things with friends....He did the WWF Wrestler personna ONLY in Cave or Tech circles, and only when it was related to someone that he thought was about to kill someone with their practices.....and unlike today--in the mid-90's, there were a great many tech and cave agencies and instructors that were actively promoting behaviors that WOULD kill divers. Pretty much only George and DIR stood up to this, and created such a fervor that things were looked at in a different light, and most of the bad behaviors were dropped....The instructors that were dangerous back in the 90's were deeply insulted. Many of these absolutely believed what they had been doing was right, and the George attacks completely unwarranted. Many other divers are alive today because of change George forced on the industry. And again, this was in tech or cave circles--George NEVER trashed or was mean to recreational divers or recreational instructors...

I'm sorry, but this just isn't fact. Anyone can and should google some of the stuff George wrote. Every few years someone links the article George wrote about strokes and he didn't limit those insults to just the cave/tech community. George was his own worst enemy and quite frankly the stuff he put in writing for anyone to see for decades to come has something to do with how bad GUE and the "DIR" community are struggling to enlist more followers.

Even with the attempted caveat of "in person", this claim conveniently neglects to remember George's attempted physical assault of Lee Bell. If Dan needs Lee's current contact info to confirm his statement, just say the word.

At any rate, this really wasn't about who's a bastard and who's loved by all that knew him. I only stumbled on to this thread because I applied for my Sheck Exley award recently, and I was thinking of the man whom the reward was named after. I thought it fitting that there is no GI3 award out there.

Somewhat similarly, I'll mention my own revised opinion on George: he was a bastardly tyrant at a time that a bastardly tyrant was needed within the WKPP organization: someone who could say "No". His insisitance on rigid conformance on a specific set of codified techniques, gear, practices & procedures was very appropriate for that particular time and place, but the critical error he made was in then trying to expand and generalize his niche case to a general use case, which is a role for a consummate communicator, not a bastard tyrant. Specifically, he erroneously equated the concept of risk minimization at any cost (which is the underlying lesson of "Better is the Enemy of Good Enough") with the applied practices of Risk Management.


-hh

 

[Abdullah]

I have to admit I find these discussions interesting, or perhaps I am just rubbernecking

I am curious though, can some list some of things that they dislike about the DIR system?

Obviously, if you are into sidemount, then it is fundamentally different. I have no problem with sidemount divers, for the ones that I know it works well for them, even though I haven't tried it myself. But if you are diving non-DIR backmounted doubles, what do you do differently and why?

I have no intention of refuting anything you say, just curious.

My dive buddy is a GUE guy and I have adopted most of that system, but I have a few things I prefer my way. If I'm diving two stages I prefer one on each side (lean left, rich right). In addition to a bottom timer, I like the dynamic capability of a dive computer as a back up to my cut tables (Petrel). Backup lights clip onto a 24 inch tether and store in my thigh pockets. And I often dive steel in warm water.

 

[Peter Guy]

I am curious though, can some list some of things that they dislike about the DIR system?

Obviously, if you are into sidemount, then it is fundamentally different.

Once again the mistake is made that "the gear" is the most important thing in the "DIR system." It is true that the "DIR system" (whatever is now the definition of DIR) has gear requirements BUT the gear is the least important part of the "DIR system." The mind set and skill set are (at least in this person's opinion) the most important aspects of the "DIR system" and thus someone diving sidemount - breather - monkey! may well NOT be "fundamentally different" from a "pure DIR diver." Yes, the gear may well be different and thus NOT "DIR" but the true fundamentals of the divers may well be the same.

As for me, give me a diver who has the right mind set and skill set and I really won't care too much what gear set she is using while if you give me a diver with the wrong mind set and skill set, I REALLY won't care what gear she is using because I won't be diving with her!

 

[nimoh]

Once again the mistake is made that "the gear" is the most important thing in the "DIR system." It is true that the "DIR system" (whatever is now the definition of DIR) has gear requirements BUT the gear is the least important part of the "DIR system." The mind set and skill set are (at least in this person's opinion) the most important aspects of the "DIR system" and thus someone diving sidemount - breather - monkey! may well NOT be "fundamentally different" from a "pure DIR diver." Yes, the gear may well be different and thus NOT "DIR" but the true fundamentals of the divers may well be the same.

As for me, give me a diver who has the right mind set and skill set and I really won't care too much what gear set she is using while if you give me a diver with the wrong mind set and skill set, I REALLY won't care what gear she is using because I won't be diving with her!

thanks for the correction, I didn't mean to imply that, but after re-reading my post, I guess I did

 

[BDSC]

So educate me for a moment. If you are part of a DIR dive group/team, would you be expected to have the very same equipment or just route the equipment you have in the same way?

 

[nimoh]

So educate me for a moment. If you are part of a DIR dive group/team, would you be expected to have the very same equipment or just route the equipment you have in the same way?

If I understand correctly, you are referring to the same brand and model?

in that case it would be the latter. Furthermore, contrary to popular opinion, it doesn't have to be all black either