Diver missing on Spiegel Grove - Key Largo Florida

[Wookie]

I'd be more willing to buy a medical problem if the diver hadn't been found out of gas.

Agreed that, if they were in fact doing penetration at 100+ feet on a single Al80, that was a very ill-advised gas plan.

Running out of gas in a wreck leads to severe and immediate medical issues.

 

[Doppler]

There's a lot about this accident that doesn't make sense to me.

...

I understand how people die when they don't run line, or if they silt themselves out. But to die from a tangled reel is something I just can't wrap my head around.

Nor me but here is something to consider... perhaps not applicable here, but something to consider when we talk about being properly trained.

I have seen people get focused on a jammed reel... in both cave and advanced wreck classes. This situation is an instructor's god's send. We pray for stuff like this. Here's how the scenario goes... and I am pretty sure many of you know this off by heart.

So, reel jams on the way out when dive has been called either on time or gas and buddy swims off a way (around a corner, through a doorway, whatever), diver fixates for a few seconds on the "problem" and tries to correct it. Often, a reel jams because line is loose and wraps itself between the spool and the axle. In any event, trying to fix it with your buddy out of sight during an exit is the wrong thing to do... ALWAYS. Now that's just my opinion, but I feel pretty strongly about it in a cave and MORE SO inside a wreck. Similar environments but wrecks have way more opportunity to **** things up horribly... generally speaking. Anyhow, bird's nest + fixation on wrong issue + buddy out of sight = potential for a real issue. Add one more thing to that scenario (instructor at this point, swims behind fixated diver and does 1) puts a loop of line around manifold to simulate entanglement 2) shuts off primary light 3) pushes purge button on diver's primary reg to simulate free-flow... or ALL THREE (this is a wreck penetration class after all). Add any one of those and BINGO... a really neat learning opportunity... with an experienced instructor to help out if needed. On your own in the real world: not so nice.

PROPERLY TRAINED means jack **** unless disaster scenarios such as this have been drilled (regularly and recently) and the correct options chosen for a safe, rapid and no-bull**** exit.

Having equipment go pear-shaped inside a wreck with your buddy ****ed off is a Road to Damascus moment. Having a piece of plastic that says you are a super wreck diver means nothing unless you have practiced real-world skills and totally ****ed up disaster scenarios like those mentioned recently.

Feel sorry for the victims -- but I am really, really ****ing tired of saying that -- now let's focus on what lessons this event can teach us without trying to be politically ****ing correct.

________________________________________
Sorry for the ****ing language

 

[MalibuJerry]

Wookie: My point exactly, nothing to be learned here. Those who think they know it all, are not listening.

The fact that the reel jammed is no big deal. There is no need to try to fix it. He had a continuous line out (presumably). Leave the reel and follow the line. Worst case scenario you purchase a new reel.

 

[JamesK]

If a tangled line causes you more trouble then you simply cussing your self through the regulator for being stupid, then you do NOT have enough training. If your line is that fouled up, tie off, cut the line, wrap the excess line around the reel and exit. All of this is simple.

If a pony bottle is your gas management plan on a wreck penetration dive, then you do NOT have enough training.

This while thing screams of bad decisions.


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[Jax]

There's a lot about this accident that doesn't make sense to me.

These guys had a reel and were using it, and were on the way OUT. Apparently there was a line problem and it got tangled or the reel jammed. Still, the diver with the reel HAS THE REEL -- there are a lot of different ways to salvage the situation. I have done an exit while manually wrapping the line around the outside of a jammed reel -- it isn't difficult (just humiliating). As long as the diver has hold of the reel and is on the line, anything else is really a pretty minor inconvenience. Even if you have to call your buddy back, cut the line and resplice it, it doesn't take much time (and if you have done the gas planning for a penetration, and are on your way OUT, you should have a LOT of gas in reserve for things like this).

I understand how people die when they don't run line, or if they silt themselves out. But to die from a tangled reel is something I just can't wrap my head around.

That's why I keep asking if the reel was still attached.


[speculation] The divers are on their way out. The initial incoming, and the front diver's outgoing, percolation, mucked up the vis. Rear diver is 'hanging' on the line to be sure it's tight. Something caused him to lose grasp on the reel. Under tension, it pops and does an Olympic dive routine on the way down . . . . somewhere. The line tangles on whatever is in the way.

Rear diver is lineless, in near- or zero vis. Panic ensues when he cannot immediately find the reel / line, goes off in some other directions. No training on a lost-line drill. (No extra reel?) Increased breathing due to fear causes OOG. The end. [/speculation]

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I wouldn't make the assumption that the reel jammed and then the diver had a problem. It is just as likely that a diver could have a heart attack or other medical problem and drop the reel, with the line getting tangled as a result.

... or something even simpler, like a roll-off or a free-flow created by bumping his first stage against the structure. Was he diving a DIN or yoke reg? Makes a difference in an overhead.

There's a lot of ways an improperly equipped diver can get in trouble inside a ship ... and the line tangle is, as you point out, the consequence rather than cause of the issue ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Thing is you need to have dealt with a jammed reel to realise what to do. As Lynn said, you wind the line around the outside and no problem. Very easy from my role as armchair quarterback.

About two weeks ago, I was the first to end my dive and was first on the boat. I'm helping others get out of the water when I get to a lady that I know carries a tech card. Her reel (to the SMB) was jammed, it was a big issue to her, and we had line all over the place and wrapped around some divers. It never occurred to her to wrap the line around the reel itself while ascending. It was something that had noticeably rattled her and she just surfaced with about 25ft of line hanging around.

I can believe that the inconvenience of a jammed reel flustered an unprepared diver, causing lost buoyancy control, quickly escalating into a ****storm that was beyond the divers capability of self help.



For Doppler, you don't always need an instructor to give you a hard time on a course; I managed to jam my pathfinder reel properly on my wreck course (the good people at Extreme Exposure replaced it free of charge). While dealing with that my can light honestly failed (I learnt not to charge it where my kids can reach because they love to unplug the charger and you don't always pick that up until it goes dark).

 

[scubafanatic]

This while thing screams of bad decisions.


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...a lot of that going on here lately.

 

[JamesK]

If a tangled line causes you more trouble then you simply cussing your self through the regulator for being stupid, then you do NOT have enough training. If your line is that fouled up, tie off, cut the line, wrap the excess line around the reel and exit. All of this is simple.

If a pony bottle is your gas management plan on a wreck penetration dive, then you do NOT have enough training.

This while thing screams of bad decisions.


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Yep, I am quoting my own post because I want to add to it.

Pony bottles. First let me say that I despise pony bottles so you know my bias. lol. Anyway, where was the pony bottle(s)? If the lead diver had to stop searching because he was low on gas, then this is a HUGE mistake in gas management and dive planning. He only had time to search for a couple minutes before being low on air. This right there, along with many other things, show me they were either not trained on proper gas planning, or simply chose to ignore it. So, now back to the pony bottles. Where were they? Were they empty as well. And the biggest, what gas was in them? Were the pony bottles to be there as an emergency gas, or a deco gas? What size were the pony bottles? Pony bottles and single cylinders have NO place in technical penetration diving or deco diving.

---------- Post added October 20th, 2013 at 02:43 PM ----------

...a lot of that going on here lately.

Absolutely, and its a damn shame.

 

[kwinter]

Has anyone confirmed that the diver was found with empty tank and empty pony? Or just one?