Advanced training questions

[Derek S]

I'm going to buck the trend here and offer that GUE Fundamentals would be the best next step for you. Rescue, deep, and those other classes/specialties are great things that should be learned, but Fundies is an invaluable class that will give you a chance to hone skills that will serve you well no matter what the next step is. I took my Fundamentals class at roughly 25 dives, and I'm so glad I did. It set the base for everything else I've done since then. Plus, as others have said, you won't find a class with more bang-for-the-buck than fundamentals.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Diving past 18 meteres as an open water diver with no other credentials is not a crime, nor will it result in suspension of your diver's license. A dive boat operator of professional guide may use that asa a reason to forbid you from going on one of their particular dives. However, as many as not will accept logged dives to depths similar to that planned on a dive under similar conditions. My wife is an open water diver with just under 300 ocean dives, 30% of which are over 20 meteres and 15% over 30 meters. She only dives with me, and insurted and currently licensed professional, but she has obtained the experience and the competence to do those dives. Those are the keys: experience and competence. You can get that diving with a DM, with experienced and qwulaified non-professionals, or in a class, which is probablyt the most minimla training there is. AOW with Padi requires exacly ONE deep dive among the dives done in the course. Diving within your personal limits does not mean you can't expand those limits by diving a little deeper with a competent dive leader, instructor, or personal dive master.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Derek S]

Diving past 18 meteres as an open water diver with no other credentials is not a crime, nor will it result in suspension of your diver's license. A dive boat operator of professional guide may use that asa a reason to forbid you from going on one of their particular dives. However, as many as not will accept logged dives to depths similar to that planned on a dive under similar conditions. My wife is an open water diver with just under 300 ocean dives, 30% of which are over 20 meteres and 15% over 30 meters. She only dives with me, and insurted and currently licensed professional, but she has obtained the experience and the competence to do those dives. Those are the keys: experience and competence. You can get that diving with a DM, with experienced and qwulaified non-professionals, or in a class, which is probablyt the most minimla training there is. AOW with Padi requires exacly ONE deep dive among the dives done in the course. Diving within your personal limits does not mean you can't expand those limits by diving a little deeper with a competent dive leader, instructor, or personal dive master.
DivemasterDennis

Just wanted to highlight what are some excellent points by Dennis:
- A certification does not automatically give the diver an ironclad knowledge of particular dives, etc. Like Dennis said, PADI AOW only gives you ONE dive in a particular kind. Some LDS/OPs even combine dives - doing a HUGE disservice to the diver paying for the class and experience.
- Experience need not come from a structured class. I didn't take the AOW class until probably 65-75 dives, and rescue until almost 100 dives. But I'd been diving with experienced divers in varied conditions ever since going through GUE Fundamentals at around 25 dives or so. I can say with a certainty that in MY particular situation (and I'd guess most others) I learned more practical information and skills in Fundies and actual bottom time than most other classes, save for Rescue and DM. That said, it was those fundamental skills learned in fundies and honed in the water with other divers that really helped me become the diver I am and made Rescue and DM as informative and awesome as they were.

 

[EFX]

Peak buoyancy need not be done as a specialty. It should be covered in the OW class but most times is not. Some of us do non cert workshops tailored to the student. Reason being is the by the book buoyacy classes are little more than generic info. A tailored non cert class works to the strengths and weaknesses of the individual and addresses those. Much more effective.

I assume you don't charge your students for the PADI book or for the processing of the c-card. I assume also that you give them some other written info or URL? I'm not sure I understand the distinction between a tailored and by-the-book class. My PADI class included tailored dives that fixed my trim. I had already got my weight right after taking the intro dive and reading the book for AOW. If I had't done that my instructor would have worked on my weight. Perhaps, you do more dives, but don't you charge more?

 

[eelnoraa]

Another vote for GUE Primer/Fundamental or UTD essential. These classes will make you think an average or even an above average PADI AOW a waste of money.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Another vote for GUE Primer/Fundamental or UTD essential. These classes will make you think an average or even an above average PADI AOW a waste of money.

They're not the same thing, nor intended to provide the same service to the student. The GUE/UTD classes focus quite a lot on equipment, buoyancy control, trim, team diving, situational awareness, and other essential skills ... but they don't touch things like underwater navigation or deep diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[eelnoraa]

I agree with the underwater nav part. But for deep diving, by deep, AOW means beyond 60ft, right? Say 60-100ft, I think what you learn in GUE/UTD entry level classes, ie. dive planning, gas planning, ascent procedure, emergency procedure, ... will be at least as good if not better than an average AOW, unless OP find a very good instructor. This is apart from the essential skill refinement you receive.

They're not the same thing, nor intended to provide the same service to the student. The GUE/UTD classes focus quite a lot on equipment, buoyancy control, trim, team diving, situational awareness, and other essential skills ... but they don't touch things like underwater navigation or deep diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I assume you don't charge your students for the PADI book or for the processing of the c-card. I assume also that you give them some other written info or URL? I'm not sure I understand the distinction between a tailored and by-the-book class. My PADI class included tailored dives that fixed my trim. I had already got my weight right after taking the intro dive and reading the book for AOW. If I had't done that my instructor would have worked on my weight. Perhaps, you do more dives, but don't you charge more?

I am not a PADI instructor so no Idon't charge for their card or book. And the workshopcan actually cost less depending on time required. All workshops begin the same way with buoyancy and weight checks. Lots of people.think.they have their weight correct. Most find out they did not unless they actually did work on it. Coming out of my OW classes they do. They've been tweaking their weight themselves for six or seven pool sessions and between checkout dives before they get an OW card.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I agree with the underwater nav part. But for deep diving, by deep, AOW means beyond 60ft, right? Say 60-100ft, I think what you learn in GUE/UTD entry level classes, ie. dive planning, gas planning, ascent procedure, emergency procedure, ... will be at least as good if not better than an average AOW, unless OP find a very good instructor. This is apart from the essential skill refinement you receive.

While I agree with you to a certain point, neither of the two GUE Fundies classes I did ever took us below about 25 feet. Theory is all well and good, but until you put it into practice it doesn't really mean a whole lot.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[EFX]

I am not a PADI instructor so no Idon't charge for their card or book. And the workshopcan actually cost less depending on time required. All workshops begin the same way with buoyancy and weight checks. Lots of people.think.they have their weight correct. Most find out they did not unless they actually did work on it. Coming out of my OW classes they do. They've been tweaking their weight themselves for six or seven pool sessions and between checkout dives before they get an OW card.

Not a PADI instructor -- I should have looked at your bio first. Integrating Bouyancy with OW is a great idea especially since DAN identifies poor bouyancy/weight as a contributing factor in many of the accidents. In my OW classes bouyancy was taught but was not worked on in the dives. Unfortunatly, it is not even required for AOW. The two required dives are deep and NAV. Deep is OK since most vacation divers are eventually going deep. At least bouyancy should be substituted for NAV.

In regards to the GUI/fundies courses I have no doubt that they provide some essential skills for the OW-level diver. The lack of shops/instructors is a barrier and the elitist/mission-oriented approach may put off a lot of casual (vacation) divers. Gas planning and team diving are not needed for the vacation diver. By vacation diver I mean someone who dives occasionally and does not take the sport as a serious hobby. As you already know this is the lowest level group that PADI targets.