groupthink

[knotical]

Oh dear. It’s so easy to offend the groupthink that is frequently seen here on ScubaBoard.

I don’t think BP/Ws are the godsend a vocal minority would have you believe. Nor do I think long hoses are needed for recreational divers, or PADI sucks, or that Spare Air is odious. I almost always wear my snorkel, and usually use Force Fins but sometimes Morfins or splits or paddles. I’m against MOF (but not for the panic illogic). I don’t care if your or my snorkel and/or mask has a purge. Also don’t care if you or I dive BP/W, poodle, vintage, sidemount, or whatever. Or if you donate your primary and/or use a combination LPI/alternate.

The structure of GUE or DIR or “team” diving are fine for those who want it or whose personality goes that way, but just aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, especially if all you’re doing are benign recreational dives. I don’t care if you use rock bottom, or the rule of thirds, or only monitor your gauge. Just be safe.

I don’t care (much) if you call fins flippers, or a mask goggles, or a cylinder a tank or bottle. Or even if you say two-tank dive when you mean two dives, not a dive with doubles.

And no, you don’t need tables to learn decompression theory.

These all have their pros and cons, and are personal preferences, or options, or opinions. Just because an opinion is repeated ad nauseam and with emphasis doesn’t make it right. It’s still just an opinion.

Why won’t more people think for themselves? Read and talk and research, but make your own choices. Find your own level of risk-management comfort.
Groupthink can evolve into political correctness which is another term for intellectual bullying, except that it’s often not very intellectual, and frequently more sheep-like than bullish. baaaaa

Get over me. Get over yourselves.
I cherish your right to your opinion, however misguided. < wink >
Suggest, explain, even cajole, but don&#8217;t try to force your opinions on me.

Let&#8217;s just enjoy our amazing sport (or activity if you prefer).

< rambling rant over > < unless I missed a sacred cow >

 

[TN-Steve]

Hum... This thread may get interesting, I'll have to get my popcorn.

I am too new and lacking the experience to have strong opinions on things SCUBA related,(or at least have opinions that are valid by having been tested, challenged and refined) but having been involved with other disciplines, I know how strong the views can be. In many cases there is a "purity of though" and to stray from it is to invite ruin and despair. Those who don't follow your view are unwashed heathens at best, and of course, the "Other" group feels the same about your views.

I'm curious if there is a PRACTICAL REAL-WORLD EXPERIENCE LEVEL vs STRENGTH OF VIEW relationship that exists. I know in some areas, people start to develop strong views with a moderately low level of experience, hold them very strongly for quite a while, and as they get into the upper echelons of experience become a bit more pragmatic, acknowledge that while they prefer their way, there are equally valid alternatives in many cases.

Steve

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Why won’t more people think for themselves? Read and talk and research, but make your own choices. Find your own level of risk-management comfort.
Groupthink can evolve into political correctness which is another term for intellectual bullying, except that it’s often not very intellectual, and frequently more sheep-like than bullish. baaaaa

Get over me. Get over yourselves.
I cherish your right to your opinion, however misguided. < wink >
Suggest, explain, even cajole, but don’t try to force your opinions on me.

I think it's safe to say one can arrive at many of the same gear conclusions as the "group(s)" against which you're railing here via thinking for yourself, while at the same time having no real relationship to the group(s) beyond occasionally being pointed to as an example of what never to do.

Care to explain how anyone's posting on SB about their opinions could possibly rise to the level of "force"?

I'm curious if there is a PRACTICAL REAL-WORLD EXPERIENCE LEVEL vs STRENGTH OF VIEW relationship that exists. I know in some areas, people start to develop strong views with a moderately low level of experience, hold them very strongly for quite a while, and as they get into the upper echelons of experience become a bit more pragmatic, acknowledge that while they prefer their way, there are equally valid alternatives in many cases.

I think this does tend to happen, although experience can also reenforce just how important avoiding certain risks can be. Your comment reminds me of the following popular paintball joke, which is not entirely inapplicable to SCUBA:

 

[Linedog]

Dive your gear.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh dear. It&#8217;s so easy to offend the groupthink that is frequently seen here on ScubaBoard.

I don&#8217;t think BP/Ws are the godsend a vocal minority would have you believe. Nor do I think long hoses are needed for recreational divers, or PADI sucks, or that Spare Air is odious. I almost always wear my snorkel, and usually use Force Fins but sometimes Morfins or splits or paddles. I&#8217;m against MOF (but not for the panic illogic). I don&#8217;t care if your or my snorkel and/or mask has a purge. Also don&#8217;t care if you or I dive BP/W, poodle, vintage, sidemount, or whatever. Or if you donate your primary and/or use a combination LPI/alternate.

The structure of GUE or DIR or &#8220;team&#8221; diving are fine for those who want it or whose personality goes that way, but just aren&#8217;t everyone&#8217;s cup of tea, especially if all you&#8217;re doing are benign recreational dives. I don&#8217;t care if you use rock bottom, or the rule of thirds, or only monitor your gauge. Just be safe.

I don&#8217;t care (much) if you call fins flippers, or a mask goggles, or a cylinder a tank or bottle. Or even if you say two-tank dive when you mean two dives, not a dive with doubles.

And no, you don&#8217;t need tables to learn decompression theory.

These all have their pros and cons, and are personal preferences, or options, or opinions. Just because an opinion is repeated ad nauseam and with emphasis doesn&#8217;t make it right. It&#8217;s still just an opinion.

Why won&#8217;t more people think for themselves? Read and talk and research, but make your own choices. Find your own level of risk-management comfort.
Groupthink can evolve into political correctness which is another term for intellectual bullying, except that it&#8217;s often not very intellectual, and frequently more sheep-like than bullish. baaaaa

Get over me. Get over yourselves.
I cherish your right to your opinion, however misguided. < wink >
Suggest, explain, even cajole, but don&#8217;t try to force your opinions on me.

Let&#8217;s just enjoy our amazing sport (or activity if you prefer).

< rambling rant over > < unless I missed a sacred cow >

I guess I'm not understanding the point of the thread ... it appears to be just venting that not everyone thinks like you do.

Who really cares what gear you use or how you dive? It only affects you and the people you dive with.

What it sounds like to me is that you disagree with some of the opinions expressed on the board ... opinions that are usually solicited ... and just wanted a chance to be demeaning.

Not impressed ... this thread doesn't really belong in the Basic Scuba forum. Where's Whine & Cheeze when you need it?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)


... oh, and by the way ... you forgot to mention freediving fins ...

 

[rongoodman]

Suggest, explain, even cajole, but don&#8217;t try to force your opinions on me.

Did someone frighten you with a long hose or something? Or are you just looking to start a fight? They call it the "Friday ruckus" over on the UK dive boards, but it's only Tuesday.

 

[TSandM]

A few years ago, I went to a local dive site that has a long parking lot. We parked at one end, and the restrooms were at the other, which meant that, in the course of the day, I made several trips down the length of the lot.

I was amazed and somewhat amused that certainly more than 3/4 of the diving setups I saw in the backs of trucks and SUVs were backplate setups. Not all of them with a long hose, but backplates with harnesses. My conclusion was not that there was groupthink, as most of the divers there weren't people I knew, and didn't seem to know one another, either. My conclusion was that there was consensus . . . a consensus reached by people who dove actively in the same conditions, and figured out what worked.

Scubaboard being a place frequented by people who are more than your average every-few-years-on-holiday diver, I would suspect some of the same thing is going on. You have a lot of people who have figured out what works well and what doesn't, and they share their opinions. I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with that, and nobody has to pay any attention to them, either.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I was amazed and somewhat amused that certainly more than 3/4 of the diving setups I saw in the backs of trucks and SUVs were backplate setups. Not all of them with a long hose, but backplates with harnesses. My conclusion was not that there was groupthink, as most of the divers there weren't people I knew, and didn't seem to know one another, either. My conclusion was that there was consensus . . . a consensus reached by people who dove actively in the same conditions, and figured out what worked.

Scubaboard being a place frequented by people who are more than your average every-few-years-on-holiday diver, I would suspect some of the same thing is going on. You have a lot of people who have figured out what works well and what doesn't, and they share their opinions. I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with that, and nobody has to pay any attention to them, either.

... and most of our local divers have never even heard of ScubaBoard. On the other hand, go to your typical warm-water dive site and you're likely to not even see a single backplate. They make more sense for the cold-water diver, because they take a portion of your required weight off of your weightbelt/harness/weight pockets ... and for most cold-water divers, that's probably their biggest reason for buying one.

Folks have all sorts of reasons for purchasing the gear they do. As long as it's appropriate to the kind of diving you're doing, it's all good ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hawkwood]

Knotical, I think we both surprised each other when we met up and went diving!

 

[rivers]

Did someone frighten you with a long hose or something? Or are you just looking to start a fight? They call it the "Friday ruckus" over on the UK dive boards.

i love a good friday ruck.