Diver missing in the Bahamas

[tkenney]

Didn't do anything wrong ..lol He's had two people killed diving from his boat already and at least one other seriously bitten.. BTW safe diving practices apply to everyone . ..

 

[wspalding]

At GrouperDawg:

Of course it is possible that Mr. Petty was bitten by a shark. But is it probable?

You used the term that he was "likely" killed by a shark. I question how you can conclude that, especially considering that feeding sharks appears to be a very safe activity. Since you've now admitted that you really don't dive much, I seriously question your credibility and knowledge on this subject.

Regardless, feeding big sharks has been going on for 10 to 15 years in the Bahamas alone; yet, only one death in all that time -- and, that's shark feeding by multiple dive operators. That's a lot of divers in the water with big sharks and a lot of minutes/hours per diver with those sharks. Literally, big sharks are being fed or attracted to divers by chum/dead fish every single day in the Bahamas by someone. In Florida, we've been doing it for about 19 months now; and, with multiple dive operators for almost 12 to 15 of those months.

Again, only one death -- is it not amazing that only one person has died, based on common beliefs about sharks (which are false)? Thus, shark feeding does not appear to be dangerous at all; otherwise, by definition, more people should have been killed or at the very least should have had serious bites. One death! How is that a dangerous activity? And, how do those statistics support your conclusion that Mr. Petty was "likely" killed by a shark? Based on those statistics, it is highly "unlikely" that he was killed by a shark.

As I've stated in this thread and other discussions on this topic, there is no doubt that someone will get bit and die sooner or later in Florida -- it's inevitable. But, we accept that risk and choose to dive with sharks. Just like other people accept the risks of death with other activities.

At WSpalding:

Photographers have the best equipment to deal with a shark in their hands -- the camera. I don't know what type of set-up Mr. Petty had, but most photographers who dive with the Shear Water are serious photographers. That means a fairly large camera system with two strobes. Again, best piece of equipment you could have to deal with a shark. So, why remove your BCD when your camera is all you need?

Keep in mind also, it does not sound like Mr. Petty would have been close to the bait crates. If he's up in the water column and drifting in the current, he's away from the crates. I'm assuming the crates were down on the sand, or inches from the sand. The sharks will be congregating around the crates; they know where the food source is located.

And, I hear Mr. Petty's equipment was found in a line, which suggests he systematically removed it -- one piece at a time.

My primary point is that I fail to see how anyone can conclude that this is death by shark; not enough evidence and the evidence at this point clearly suggests that Mr. Petty removed his BCD. If he removed his BCD, he had a problem under the water or on the surface.

I was just pondering events that might cause him to remove gear. I think it highly unlikely that Dr. Petty died from a shark encounter, but I have talked to one diver who was bumped by a tiger during a safety stop in the Bahamas. I admit I thought it unlikely he'd remove gear as a defensive measure, but since he seemed to be near the boat based on reports I am mystified over what would drive him to remove gear. Was his tank recovered with air?



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[iamrushman]

interesting thread...........very sad news for all......condolences for all involved.

 

[danvolker]

Didn't do anything wrong ..lol He's had two people killed diving from his boat already and at least one other seriously bitten.. BTW safe diving practices apply to everyone . ..

And who are you to suggest safe diving practices for professional photographers? Are you even aware of the differences between the needs of recreational divers on a paid sightseeing trip, and professional photographers on a paid photo trip?
And what do you think are, "Safe Diving Practices" ?

---------- Post added July 24th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ----------

To me, this sounds alot like the "party line" that all boats should cater to novice divers, and run practices and protocols with babysitters in water, and the assumption that at all times, the hands of the divers need to be held....
I will tell you right now, that many of us would quit diving before we would go out on a typical novice boat with their joke of a nanny nation type baby sitting service.....Shearwater caters to divers that will not put up with that nonsense, and I imagine John was one of these, that would detest the idea of a baby sitting service and enforced buddy system.

Each time I have been on any of Abernethy's boats, it feels like 5 star service, but they allow good divers to act and be treated like good divers.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Why are there so many posts trying to put this on John's mistakes or health issues rather than looking at all the factual mistakes the operator has proven to have committed....

A safe dive operator can be expected to have a death or two every once in a while. Do it day in and day out for many years, people are gonna get bent, get hurt and yes even die. Sometimes these things can be preventable, other times not. I'm not sure I agree that feeding large sharks is safe (or wise), but what information has been discussed which would point the finger back at the operator being negligent in this particular situation?

I do think it is strange that we hear about the guys medical condition, hear reference to his medical history and that he was allowed to dive in a compromised physical condition, but we have not yet heard a straight forward and detailed account of what actually happened. Dan knows what his hydration state was (and apparently that it was not a night dive) but we aren't hearing too much else? Other than the official statements from the authorities that a shark attack was involved.

Regardless of the cause of death, the customer had to know there was some elevated risk of a shark encounter going downhill and the potential for injury or death. I imagine they sign a waiver that says something along these lines? So even if a "shark attack" was the cause of death, how exactly does that constitute negligence (or "proven mistakes").

 

[tkenney]

Dan I won't even bother to get in a pissing contest ... And will gracefully bow out from this discussion

 

[boulderjohn]

Since we know Dr Petty was using one of those big and very heavy HP tanks.....we can also be fairly confident, that he would be very negative with this if he breathed it down to nothing while fighting this current---

I am really not sure I understand your point here, so I assume I am either misreading this or you miswrote what you intended to say. We have a diver diving while (we assume) achieving neutral buoyancy. As he breathes down the tank, the tank gets lighter, not heavier. In fact, if he were properly weighted for the dive, he should have a hard time descending with an empty tank. Now, a lot of people wearing steel tanks are indeed overweighted during a dive, but even so, that should be more of a problem at the beginning of a dive than at the end.

 

[danvolker]

I am really not sure I understand your point here, so I assume I am either misreading this or you miswrote what you intended to say. We have a diver diving while (we assume) achieving neutral buoyancy. As he breathes down the tank, the tank gets lighter, not heavier. In fact, if he were properly weighted for the dive, he should have a hard time descending with an empty tank. Now, a lot of people wearing steel tanks are indeed overweighted during a dive, but even so, that should be more of a problem at the beginning of a dive than at the end.

This is related not to John Petty specifically, but to many divers that do shark trips and shoot pictures....they want to be quite heavy, so that they can stand or kneel on the bottom with enough weight to be able to control their body position easily...if you try a GUE style neutral approach to absolute minimal weighting for the dive, this will fail badly--you need to be solid on the bottom, and you dont hover....the idea is to get great videos or shots, and you are on course sand that is not very silty....this is just the way it's done.
The big, HP tanks, help you to be heavy on the bottom, and allow the diver to maximize their time on the bottom for maximum number of shots. Most of the HP's like this that I have tried are about 2.5 pound heavy in the water when empty....if on a BC with LOTS of integral weight--as is very common today, and when the diver wants to be anchored to the bottom for good video....then this diver could be very heavy in an OOA scenario....and while this is not the kind of diver you would expect to run out of air, he could have begun cramping due to his dehydration from sea sickness, and all the normal training and experience may not have helped him at this point. He may have gotten to the point that the tank had insufficient gas to fill the BC, and had to get out of it in order to reach the surface....if the cramps continued, this would be catastrophic.
An awful lot of what-ifs....could-haves....but still far more probable based on DAN accident stats, than a shark attack in mid water--on a good diver/ photographer with a camera to fend off the shark with....
There is no "making sense" of this.....it was a tragic accident.

 

[boulderjohn]

This is related not to John Petty specifically, but to many divers that do shark trips and shoot pictures....they want to be quite heavy, so that they can stand or kneel on the bottom with enough weight to be able to control their body position easily...if you try a GUE style neutral approach to absolute minimal weighting for the dive, this will fail badly--you need to be solid on the bottom, and you dont hover....the idea is to get great videos or shots, and you are on course sand that is not very silty....this is just the way it's done.
The big, HP tanks, help you to be heavy on the bottom, and allow the diver to maximize their time on the bottom for maximum number of shots. Most of the HP's like this that I have tried are about 2.5 pound heavy in the water when empty....if on a BC with LOTS of integral weight--as is very common today, and when the diver wants to be anchored to the bottom for good video....then this diver could be very heavy in an OOA scenario....and while this is not the kind of diver you would expect to run out of air, he could have begun cramping due to his dehydration from sea sickness, and all the normal training and experience may not have helped him at this point. He may have gotten to the point that the tank had insufficient gas to fill the BC, and had to get out of it in order to reach the surface....if the cramps continued, this would be catastrophic.
An awful lot of what-ifs....could-haves....but still far more probable based on DAN accident stats, than a shark attack in mid water--on a good diver/ photographer with a camera to fend off the shark with....
There is no "making sense" of this.....it was a tragic accident.

If you have added a lot of weight to get heavy for the purpose you describe, would not the obvious preference in an OOA situation be to ditch that extra weight rather than ditch all the gear?

 

[danvolker]

If you have added a lot of weight to get heavy for the purpose you describe, would not the obvious preference in an OOA situation be to ditch that extra weight rather than ditch all the gear?

Yes! I agree. The thing is, I have seen many divers with integrated weights that are very heavy....and the norm is, if they suddenly are OOA, they don't ditch the integrated weight--it is too hard on many systems....weight belts like the rubber freedive belts are easy, but few scuba divers have them....I am not talking about a calm, deliberate action...I am talking about what we normally see off S Fla in the normal scenarios where something caused the diver to suddenly be OOA. Certainly massive cramping could easily put most divers into a helpless enough situation, that ultimately an OOA outcome would be the probable result. Falling asleep underwater could create the same outcome ( normally a deep on air event).