Is it really worth the risk?

[fishb0y]

sorry, but there are far to many instructors that are not worth any salt...and even for the good ones, 3 classes will not put the student through every conceivable type of stress (emphasis mine) they need to deal with.

Those must be quite the classes, and I'm sure very expensive.

I guess I see training a different way, I'm looking for tools to handle multiple situations, not verbatim instructions on each. If you need training to handle EVERY conceivable issue, feel free to pay for all of that fluff. I'll refrain my last question... following that PADI model, what different training on a rebreather would you learn between courses like Tec40 through Tec Trimix and deeper? I can see different planning and maybe bottle management, but again, all that can be covered in 3 classes.

 

[danvolker]

Those must be quite the classes, and I'm sure very expensive.

I guess I see training a different way, I'm looking for tools to handle multiple situations, not verbatim instructions on each. If you need training to handle EVERY conceivable issue, feel free to pay for all of that fluff. I'll refrain my last question... following that PADI model, what different training on a rebreather would you learn between courses like Tec40 through Tec Trimix and deeper? I can see different planning and maybe bottle management, but again, all that can be covered in 3 classes.

I don't like the PADI model either.....The model I really do like, is the way the WKPP trained it's divers in the 90's....they would get on going training, and they would get progressively larger challenges on dives, and other team members would be mentoring them the whole time.....the mentoring , during large progressive challenges, worked well to take divers as far as they were capable of going.

I like to see a diver go through many major challenges, and see how they react to each one. But to create a good picture, there are many dives you need to go through....the mentors are there every step of the way to see each challenge and response....the Instructor with 3 classes for the student, is not going to see the real world responses. But you could certainly make a lot more money with this model, than with the WKPP model ( mentoring was free ).

 

[HIGHwing]

Those must be quite the classes, and I'm sure very expensive.

I guess I see training a different way, I'm looking for tools to handle multiple situations, not verbatim instructions on each. If you need training to handle EVERY conceivable issue, feel free to pay for all of that fluff. I'll refrain my last question... following that PADI model, what different training on a rebreather would you learn between courses like Tec40 through Tec Trimix and deeper? I can see different planning and maybe bottle management, but again, all that can be covered in 3 classes.

Exactly. The problem is people are perpetuating the concept that rebreathers are hard and you need to know every threat matrix and all this nonsense to apply to some indescribable edge case that hasn't yet happened.

You show me the incident and we'll map it back to should have bailed out because the mix in the loop wasn't breathable. All the CCR diver needs to distinguish is whether or not to shut down the O2 post bailout.

These devices just aren't as hard to operate as people make them seem. I think there is a lot of chest thumping going on over diving with a plastic bag attached to your damn mouth.

 

[danvolker]

For the moment, let's assume that you could teach the HOW.... of how to use a Rebreather, in 3 easy lessons....and after this, there would be practically no chance for a rebreather related problem that would be catastrophic to the diver......

So now we have hundreds of these new divers ( or thousands) , that can go as deep as 400 feet, and their rebreather will be fine...but what about the diver himself? What about the reflexes in dealing with underwater emergency situations that have nothing to do with the rebreather or OC unit....Siltouts, buddies becoming injured, and a hundred other issues that diving for many years can prepare you for....but that diving for a few months will not.

 

[fishb0y]

And it all comes back to a GUE model... One of the main reasons I went to RB was to get away from those guys.

I blame all of this on someone naming a rebreather 'JJ'.

 

[dreamdive]

Is PADI teaching CCR in 3 classes? That's scary if that is true.

Our basic CCR classes are 5 days, normoxic and trimix are 4 days each. There is plenty to teach a new student and not just focusing on bail-out and other in water drills.

 

[demed]

Is PADI teaching CCR in 3 classes? That's scary if that is true.

Our basic CCR classes are 5 days, normoxic and trimix are 4 days each. There is plenty to teach a new student and not just focusing on bail-out and other in water drills.

From the top of my head i believe this is the PADI Rebreather path: Rec Rebreather <60ft no bailout 4 dives; Adv Rebreather <130ft 1 bailout 4 dives; Tec 40 CCR 150 ft 500 minutes; Tec 60 CCR 200ft 500 minutes; and the still not available Tec 100 CCR 300ft 500 minutes

 

[boulderjohn]

Is PADI teaching CCR in 3 classes? That's scary if that is true.

Our basic CCR classes are 5 days, normoxic and trimix are 4 days each. There is plenty to teach a new student and not just focusing on bail-out and other in water drills.

Not being a rebreather diver let alone an instructor, I Googled it to see. The first place I saw teaching the PADI rebreather class is Add Helium. The PADI classes there limit you to diving within NDLs to a maximum depth of 100 feet. The class takes four days.
PADI Rebreather and Advanced Rebreather Course | Add Helium

 

[demed]

Those must be quite the classes, and I'm sure very expensive.

I guess I see training a different way, I'm looking for tools to handle multiple situations, not verbatim instructions on each. If you need training to handle EVERY conceivable issue, feel free to pay for all of that fluff. I'll refrain my last question... following that PADI model, what different training on a rebreather would you learn between courses like Tec40 through Tec Trimix and deeper? I can see different planning and maybe bottle management, but again, all that can be covered in 3 classes.

Wow! PADI getting dinged not for relaxing the standards but for doing too much training...

 

[fishb0y]

Not at all. There's a difference between standards and dinging people with more classes. I remember walking into Hal Watts' shop in Orlando in the late '90s inquiring about deep classes. What it boiled down to was a new class every 10 feet... Apparently there was a different technique of breathing between 170 and 180 feet.