When is it okay to exceeding training limits?

[NAM001]

Let me ask the limits question from another aspect.


What is max depth for OW
What is max depth for AOW
What is the mmax depth for DEEP
---------
What is the max depth for Recreational divng.

If this were driving licenses that we are talking about the 130 croud would say that the basic drivers license covers all driving on all roads up to comercial vehicles.
The non 130 group says the license gives you access to all driving WITH THE PROPER ENDORCEMENTS. You need a drivers license with the motorcycle endorsement to drive a motorcycle.

As diving goes you have a OW card that says you can dive in the recreational limits (130). (Not go beyond the rec limits of 130 into the tech region of >130) You get the AOW endorcement to dive regions of 60-100 of the recreational 130 limit. You get a deep endorcement to extend the AOW region of diving to 130. You cant get a AOW without the OW, and you cant get the DEEP with out the AOW. Each an endorcement to further use the depth regions up to the Open Water Limit of recreational diving of 130. One could say that the OW is the basic cert that has a catagory limit to what endorcements can allow you to go to, within the recreational arena of 130.

In addition to that the AOW provides more traiing or the sam training as applied to deeper depths. The DEEP cert takes the skills developed and proven in the AOW training and expands upon it to equip you through training for diving beyond 100 ft but with in the recreational arena. So with that how can anyone say that the OW training recieved trained you for 100-130 water? Or more rprecisly >60 ft.

To say that OW is all that is needed and stillvalidate the need for AOW and DEEP then one must accept that the risks and skills stay the same, from ow to deep, and all you have to do is pay the agency to have an instructor observe you at 60-100 for 150$ and then at 100-130 for another 150$ and you are now trained and experienced for the certs.

 

[KeithG]

Let me ask the limits question from another aspect.


What is max depth for OW
What is max depth for AOW
What is the mmax depth for DEEP
---------
What is the max depth for Recreational divng.

I think this one is easy: they are all 130 feet. The recreational limit endorsed by PADI (and a few others?).

OW proves you have some diving experience and allows you to dive to recreational limits.
AOW proves you have some deepish experience and allows you to dive to recreational limits.
DEEP proves you have some deeper experience and allows you to dive to recreational limits.

Was this a trick question? Am I missing something?

 

[NAM001]

You are clearly from the camp that says ow is all the traiing you need to go to 130 ...contrary to padi ow book. this will always be an issue that no one will agree to. There is more to going deep than A experience dive.

I think this one is easy: they are all 130 feet. The recreational limit endorsed by PADI (and a few others?).

OW proves you have some diving experience and allows you to dive to recreational limits.
AOW proves you have some deepish experience and allows you to dive to recreational limits.
DEEP proves you have some deeper experience and allows you to dive to recreational limits.

Was this a trick question? Am I missing something?

 

[KeithG]

You are clearly from the camp that says ow is all the traiing you need to go to 130 ...contrary to padi ow book. this will always be an issue that no one will agree to. There is more to going deep than A experience dive.

Contrary to which book? Can you provide a reference?

Neither of the 2 different versions I have in my possession support your claim. Maybe it was added at a later date?

My main point is that there seems to be lots of "folklore" out there and no facts.

Dragnet (franchise) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[boulderjohn]

So my thought is I am not equally breathing every foot or so when I am descending at greater than 60 fpm. My thought process would say - perhaps it is every 5 to 8 feet I am breathing in and out - I do the head down descent. That leads me to believe that I would on-gas less than the full amount that V-Planner is accounting for and attributes to my descent. But that is my hypothesis - am I way off?

There is a thread about the relation of breathing rate to on-gassing and off-gassing roughly once a year. I started one about 9-10 years ago myself. Check the Ask Dr. Decompression forum especially. Here is the quick summary to save you time: contrary to what might seem to be common sense, the rate at which you breathe has no effect whatsoever on your on-gassing and off-gassing. If you understand diffusion--the process by which gases enter and leave our bodies--you will see why.

 

[Centrals]

These are my experience in SE Asia:
Most operators will set depth limit based on dive certificate:
1. OW: 18m max
2. AOW: 30m max.
3. Deep speciality: 40m max.
Of course there are exception!

I believe in places like Maldives, the max is 30m for any level.
If you want to dive the Monad Shoal(20-24m) in Malapascua to see the Thresher shark, most operators will insist on AOW.

 

[NAM001]

Its interesting that you say this cause i was surfing for diving limits and first place i came across was a padi x star site selling AOW classes with the reason of the course being extending your OW limit of 18m to 30m. so its probably not just in aisa that those figures exist.

These are my experience in SE Asia:
Most operators will set depth limit based on dive certificate:
1. OW: 18m max
2. AOW: 30m max.
3. Deep speciality: 40m max.
Of course there are exception!

I believe in places like Maldives, the max is 30m for any level.
If you want to dive the Monad Shoal(20-24m) in Malapascua to see the Thresher shark, most operators will insist on AOW.

---------- Post added January 19th, 2015 at 04:43 AM ----------

giffenk i dont have the book with me however hereare some segments from padi sites that support my position of what the book says.

From padi site notice the use of LIMITS plural refering to recreational and beginner divers. ow is a beginner certification AS OPPOSED TO SDVANCED CERTIFICATION.
　
How deep do you go?
With the necessary training and experience, the limit for recreational scuba diving is 40 metres/130 feet. Beginning scuba divers stay shallower than about 18 metres/60 feet. Although these are the limits, some of the most popular diving is shallower than 12 metres/40 feet, where the water’s warmer and the colors are brighter.
　

With PADI the following depth limits are:
- Open Water -> 18 meters
- Advanced Open Water -> 30 meters
- Any level with Deep Speciality -> 40 Meters

tha above suggests tha an ow with a deep specialty had a 130 limit, I suspect a prereq to deep os AOW. my comment
　
padi site
(with out aow you are not allowed to go to a deeper recommended depth) my comment
There are many advantages to taking the PADI Advanced Divers course some being:
The PADI Advanced Scuba Diver certification allows you to dive to a deeper recommended depth of 30 meters exposing you to many more dive sites that the professional scuba diving shops and centers would not have allowed you to explore as an Open Water Diver if too deep.

I have in the past posted the book chapter page and paragraph that discusses the diver responsibilities, which cover the 18 m limit and,,, as it is associated with not diving beyond your training exposure as a diver responsibility.

The Ow CLASS ACKNOLEDGES The 18M LIMIT AND SAY THEY WILL NOT BE GOING TO 18M limit IN ANY PORTION OF THE CLASS. The class i sat in on said they would not intentially go deeper than 30 ft.
Now is this just a shop thing or factual info. Who knows...
oNE THING IS FOR CERTAIN ....I can not find anywhere in the padi ow book that says upon completioin of the ow course you are good for 130 ft dives with the skills you have received IN YOUR OW TRAINING.

Contrary to which book? Can you provide a reference?

Neither of the 2 different versions I have in my possession support your claim. Maybe it was added at a later date?

My main point is that there seems to be lots of "folklore" out there and no facts.

Dragnet (franchise) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[nimoh]

Let me ask the limits question from another aspect.


What is max depth for OW
What is max depth for AOW
What is the mmax depth for DEEP
---------
What is the max depth for Recreational divng.

If this were driving licenses that we are talking about the 130 croud would say that the basic drivers license covers all driving on all roads up to comercial vehicles.
The non 130 group says the license gives you access to all driving WITH THE PROPER ENDORCEMENTS. You need a drivers license with the motorcycle endorsement to drive a motorcycle.

As diving goes you have a OW card that says you can dive in the recreational limits (130). (Not go beyond the rec limits of 130 into the tech region of >130) You get the AOW endorcement to dive regions of 60-100 of the recreational 130 limit. You get a deep endorcement to extend the AOW region of diving to 130. You cant get a AOW without the OW, and you cant get the DEEP with out the AOW. Each an endorcement to further use the depth regions up to the Open Water Limit of recreational diving of 130. One could say that the OW is the basic cert that has a catagory limit to what endorcements can allow you to go to, within the recreational arena of 130.

In addition to that the AOW provides more traiing or the sam training as applied to deeper depths. The DEEP cert takes the skills developed and proven in the AOW training and expands upon it to equip you through training for diving beyond 100 ft but with in the recreational arena. So with that how can anyone say that the OW training recieved trained you for 100-130 water? Or more rprecisly >60 ft.

To say that OW is all that is needed and stillvalidate the need for AOW and DEEP then one must accept that the risks and skills stay the same, from ow to deep, and all you have to do is pay the agency to have an instructor observe you at 60-100 for 150$ and then at 100-130 for another 150$ and you are now trained and experienced for the certs.

Not a bad analogy, but I see no problem with an OW diver going a little beyond 60' and slowly working their way up to 130' and staying within NDL. Going past 130' would require some instruction either formal or informal. I also don't see a problem with driving a motorcycle without an endorsement, except that it's illegal on roadways and you could face a fine if caught (not the case with OW diver going past 60'). Many young boys and girls learn to ride a motorcycle before even getting a basic driver's license.

 

[tursiops]

KWS: the PADI Open Water final exam has a question about recommended versus maximum depth; I'm not qoing to quote it because it is a final-exam question! But the official answer is 60 ft is recommended for OW-level divers, 130 feet is maximum for all recreational divers. The word "limit" is not used, so you really ought to get over it. Please remember that "certification" is a statement of having been trained, not a permit or a license to go do something.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

It is also recommended that you limit your calorie intake based on exercise... Not too many people listen to that "recommendation" -
Recommend -
verb (used with object)
1. to present as worthy of confidence, acceptance, use, etc.; commend; mention favorably: to recommend an applicant for a job; to recommend a book.
2. to represent or urge as advisable or expedient: to recommend caution.
3. to advise, as an alternative; suggest (a choice, course of action, etc.) as appropriate, beneficial, or the like: He recommended the blue-plate special. The doctor recommended special exercises for her.
4. to make desirable or attractive:
a plan that has very little to recommend it.