Changing dive op attitudes to "solo"

[NAM001]

That is exactly what i was refering to. The resultant change in evolution brought on by a very small group (1%) and succceding because they appear to be a much larger community than they really are. This is a poor example but say 1% of the overall population does solo. 5% of population have ;osting abilities on SB. all solo divers are among the 5% on SB. So 20% of Sb believe the barriers should be removed in regards to solo diving. So now run the logic backwards. 20% of SB are pro solo. there fore 20% of all dives are pro solo. 20% perceived or not can be quite a force. Now the removed stigma on the 1% overall becomes a life of its own because its looked at as 20% of the overall population. Now be have perhaps 20 percent that no longer think of solo as dangerous at all. Kinda of like the evolution of NITROX. Imagine what would happen if the barriers were dropped for wreck or cave diving. "We dont need no stinking line, That sign is for newbys and I have 30 dives in my book" I guess its the You dont know what you dont know.

Among other things, I think you may have misunderstood my question (assuming that's the question you are referring too) I did not ask how to change dive ops attitudes but rather are they changing. As perhaps a natural evolution of diving, similar to the gradual acceptance among the general diving population.

 

[uncfnp]

Are you "outing" me?

Can't take full credit. Had a little help.

 

[Akimbo]

That is exactly what i was refering to. The resultant change in evolution brought on by a very small group (1%) and succceding because they appear to be a much larger community than they really are. This is a poor example but say 1% of the overall population does solo...

I don’t think that Scubaboard is the agent of change here as opposed to a reflection of the dive community. I can only speak to what I have seen since the early 1960s, mostly on the Pacific Coast, where Solo and same-ocean-buddy diving is common. The very aggressive buddy diving culture started to be taught as dive classes sacrificed a lot of self-rescue training beginning in the 1980s. This may be a regional thing, probably affected by visibility and dense kelp here as well.

 

[uncfnp]

So KWS, are you actually making the slippery slope argument against dive ops allowing solo diving because of the negative influence on other divers? And further postulating that SB is the source for this change and that lastly, this trend is a dangerous one?

Hmmm. Can't agree with any of that. I don't have the long historical perspective of diving, such as Akimbo, but to my limited observations this trend is more a reflection of the general diving community as evidenced by several diving agencies acknowledging it as a legitimate option (even if they don't call it that). And the trend that I am seeing more then solo diving itself is the self reliant diver, a diver equipped and hopefully mentally prepared to self rescue. I don't know how anyone can argue this is a bad trend. If SB is somehow responsible for more self reliant divers, I am thrilled to be a small part of that.

 

[drrich2]

KWS:

I've read your posts and thought about them awhile. I think they bring up the point that there is more than one point at issue in this discussion. Let's take a look at a couple of different scenarios/agendas soloists may pursue.

1.) The 'Credential Effect' - like needing an AOW to join dive op. boats going to sites with over 60' planned max. depth dives. You go to Key Largo, you want to dive the Spiegel Grove with Rainbow Reef Dive Center, you got the AOW card, you get to go! Some people would like a Solo cert. card to offer the same level of privilege more widely. This is useful if you do a lot of dive trips with op.s where you're not a regular, and they don't know you.

2.) The 'Who You Know Effect' - where there's not an official policy on the books, but the Captain & staff either unofficially let seasoned divers they know to be accomplished solo pretty much at will, or overlook their 'same day, same ocean' buddy splits once in the water. If you do a lot of local diving with one or more op.s who know you well, and share your opinion of your ability, this may sound fine. The traveling diver not so much.

Option 2.) has a related issue; whether the Captain &/or boat staff have some official or unofficial 'duty of care' to police who they do & don't let solo dove off their boat. And whether they should, even if the policies/disclaimers/etc...can be set up where they don't.

Richard.

 

[Akimbo]

… Some people would like a Solo cert. card to offer the same level of privilege more widely. This is useful if you do a lot of dive trips with op.s where you're not a regular, and they don't know you...

Honestly, the only reason I got a solo card was to let captains off the liability hook. It turned out to be handy on a few trips after-the-fact though.

It is really odd to those of us who were trained to be “self-reliant” from day one, which is not the same as solo. “Diver” and “self-reliant” would be redundant in the same sentence to us. It’s not as though we weren’t trained in the buddy system, starting with buddy breathing, but it was always clear that you can and will find yourself in a position that you have to act quickly to rescue yourself. Solo is just a natural evolution once those skills are cemented and tempered with experience.

 

[tye1138]

I can only speak to what I have seen since the early 1960s, mostly on the Pacific Coast, where Solo and same-ocean-buddy diving is common. The very aggressive buddy diving culture started to be taught as dive classes sacrificed a lot of self-rescue training beginning in the 1980s. This may be a regional thing, probably affected by visibility and dense kelp here as well.

This is 100% correct and it's sad to think something our modern divers are incapable of doing something people were doing in the 60's with J valves, no gauges and single regulators. Instruction today isn't quite as good, missing a lot of critical elements of self preservation. Our modern training focuses entirely on someone else helping you, rather then helping yourself. This starts from gear assembly/checking all the way through dive planning and gas consumption. I understand this philosophy for beginners, those divers who simply have no experience and need someone to hold their hand. However, those who are just beginning should use buddies as further training aids, rather then something to rely on continuously.

It's that paradigm which needs to shift in my eyes.

Certification card's are actually pretty worthless if you aren't using those skills on a regular basis. Overhead environment and wreck penetration are skills you learn by someone teaching you because they're extremely dangerous situations. You henceforth use those taught skills on a regular basis when diving in those situations. Most people take advanced and rescue courses after OW and forget those skills very shortly after. Same goes for solo diving courses. What skills are you going to learn that you'll use on a regular basis, that weren't taught in your OW or rescue course?

To me, SCUBA diving should be about self preservation, period. When you're in self-preservation mode, you tend to think about your training harder. You go through equipment/planning better and double/triple check the basic's because you know, nobody else is there to help you. When you throw a buddy in the mix, if you rely on them to make decisions and check things, you are basically putting your life into their hands. Whether they're a good/proficient diver or not. You also rely on them in the water, trailing their every move to insure you don't get lost. Your heart rate rises because you're trying to keep up and deal with everything else around you, now you're in danger and the only person who can save you is in front of you. Now imagine lowering the visibility to 10 feet and you soon realize, buddy diving is pretty worthless.

 

[RJP]

I mostly shore dive - the charter boats I have used in NJ do not allow solo.

Which charters have you used? I don't know a single NJ boat that does NOT allow solo diving; I've done so on pretty much all of them. If you are going on a boat as part of a shop charter, you may be encountering a SHOP policy.

 

[lowviz]

OK, you earned it. Someday I'm going to dive off the Gypsy Blood.

I don't know why it never happened for me. Just never did. Captain Dan speaks really well of you guys. -and you do the same.

:kiss2:

 

[Steve_C]

Our modern training focuses entirely on someone else helping you, rather then helping yourself. This starts from gear assembly/checking all the way through dive planning and gas consumption.

Seems like a gross generalization. I was certiified within the last 10 years. I had to be able to set up my own equipment. We discussed dive planning. I dove with a computer but had to know how to read tables. I was expected to have adequate buoyancy skills. Various hazards were discussed. That I was responsible for myself was also stressed. Did I have a lot still to learn. Of course. Still do. Was my training focused on having anybody do anything for me. No way.

There is some shoddy instruction of course. But I think that a lot of good instruction is done. If the student then wants to not dive for a year and have forgotten half of what they learned when they show up at a resort or on a boat, that is the student's fault, not the instruction.

Not that it matters but my instrurctor was an SDI/TDI tech qualified instructor.