Truk and an aborted Trip - Thanks United

[Peter69_56]

I flew the island hopper for four years in a B-727. I can only remember once not getting into Chuuk. The distances between the islands are so great you usually have time for only one approach then on to Phonpei and if Phonpei is down you go back to Guam. If you lollygag around Chuuk the crew will time out downline and not make it to Hawaii.

It's not like the US where you have an airport every 20 miles or so and can stop in and get some jet fuel if you get low. It's 632 miles from Guam to Chuuk and 456 miles from Chuuk to Phonpei and that's straight line and does not take into account the miles for following the airways and shooting approaches and then lollygagging. There are ZERO other options.

In the old days you could take a boat from island to island and be assured of getting there. Then Pan Am had the flying boats and it only took a week or so. Now you can do it in a day and you want to bitch! You know the rules before you leave. The airlines are not responsible for the weather. Flying the islands to this day, weather reports are mostly SWAG anyway.

We are the life blood of the islands and carry a lot of cargo from milk to groceries to hospital patients to caskets. There is zero maintenance on these islands. We also carry a mechanic and some parts like tires and tools so we won't get stranded. That stuff weighs a lot. We used to leave passengers behind on occasion because we were weight limited.

Recent changes to the Federal Aviation Regulations have decreased the amount of time a pilot may be on duty. No more 16 hour days and then trying to shoot an approach into Cleveland Hopkins at night in the blinding snow in a 40 knot crosswind. Fatigue has played a part in many aircraft accidents. In the old days it was each station keeping track of their times and if a minute or two was lost. Well, blind eye syndrome. Those days are gone. Now, with satellites and ACARS the Company and the FAA keep track of pilot and crew duty times to the second. If you go over by one second you could jeopardize your license and the company could get a hefty fine.

All that being said, Chuuck is the finest wreck diving I have ever done. I dive there whenever I can.

You make a lot of assumptions in your post. It would appear that you are a United Employee, pilot perhaps, as well as a diver. So ok you know the deal there, great!

We are mere passengers and know stuff all about rules, pilot issues, particular route issues. Nor should we as we do not own, work for an airline. We are customers and we have an expectation that if we pay for a ticket, then we get the service. Ok so airlines are not libel for flight issues relating to weather, we all get that and understand, bad weather happens and its no ones fault and better safe on the ground than dead because we flew. On our particular flight we had additional pilots on the flight, so perhaps they could have handled the extra flight time if it were incurred? Not sure so perhaps not and maybe they were just in transit so not available to fly. Whilst this is all frustrating to the customer and not normally understood, most accept that weather can and will cause an abort, delay or flight to somewhere else. Yes I accept that United don't have heaps of planes hanging about just in case, if they did they would be broke. I get all of that. Just don't promise a flight that does not exist just to try and keep people happy, a lie does nothing for the credibility of the company.

What is NOT acceptable is the poor service in dealing with customers who have been dumped at the next port of call. It doesn't cut it to say they are less than a third world country. Does United employ monkeys so they keep costs down, no. They are people and just need training in how to deal with this event. I don't actually blame the locals, I blame management in not providing them with the skills to deal with clearly a common occurrence. They said it has happened quite regularly in the last few months, so a common enough occurrence to plan for and keep the customers informed and happy enough. I actually felt very sorry for the local manager, clearly he was under the hammer and had no support.

I am not suggesting red carpet hotels and drinks, I am talking information and direction. Many of the customers don't know the area, may not have travelled much so are not only lost but feel abandoned. Please forget the rubbish about Truk making it worth while sleeping on concrete floors until a flight is available. You are trying to trivialise the trauma that many feel. For some it was their first dive trip overseas. As I said, I am not suggesting huge costs, I am suggesting good information and emotional support. Often the only cost associated with this is training for the employees, and it generates a power of good will.

Read my previous post below!

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I am not upset with United that they had to drop us at Pohnpei, that's just bad luck. I understand that they didn't have sufficient seats for everyone the same day. I also understand that the next day they could not get everyone on. They however promised to look at a rescue flight given the number of passengers (70) and the remoteness of the place and few flights, however I personally don't believe this ever was a serious option that was going to happen. Its not that the disaster happened, its how you handle the aftermath that matters most. The reps first words were to convince everyone that the WERE NOT paying for accommodation.

How about something novel, the truth and some reassurance that they are doing something. We stupidly made the assumption the airline would take care of us by providing direction on what to do etc. After all its not the first time this has happened I am sure.

I would try something like this;

1. Rebook for future flights (locals did and got the few seats on the next flight)
2. We will keep you informed and your contact person is ???
3. We are looking into a rescue flight however its very remote as we just don't have planes laying about spare, they all fly to be profitable so usually non available.
4. There is a flight tomorrow and then non until Saturday,then one sunday evening, but spare seats are limited.
5. We can assist in getting you accommodation (however we will not be paying for it under the airline rules of bad weather).
6. For those who have not yet gotten a new flight, come down to the airport tomorrow at 9 for us to rebook

etc etc.

What people need is certainty, even if its the fact there are no seats for 2 days. At least then people can go find accommodation and shower and relax. To be in a hot humid small airport after being awake for 26 hrs, with no certainty of anything, and to be kept there for hours being strung along on the perhaps chance there might be a flight is a poor way to deal with people. Just cut the bull, be honest and let people move on to the next issue.

We then had to face the fact that there was no accommodation available for Friday evening as they are having a convention here. So are we to all sleep on the concrete floor with no food, no showers, nothing? We suggested to them that whilst they have no legal obligation to do anything, but perhaps a moral obligation given the circumstances and 70 people. They should be prepared for this given the location and risks. Its not huge cost in any way at all and certainly would be good for PR. Very easy for a bean counter in Chicago to make decisions about people stuck on a remote island with nothing available.

As I said, all of the people I spoke with had the same comments. Its how you deal with the event that matters most.

 

[Zeagle Eagle]

On the other hand, for our pilot of the thread, it's well known that airlines blame every possible delay on weather so as to avoid as much responsibility as possible. If a butterfly flaps it's wings in Germany, it does not a delay in San Diego cause, contrary to airline belief. I do think that 5 days is exorbitant and the passengers deserve compensation for that, not for the diversion in the first place.

Really,"airlines blame every possible delay" and you base this on what information. That is total nonsense. You have not a clue what you are talking about on this issue. I have sat in on hundreds if not thousands of delay meetings and rarely is weather the reason.

Also, it's true when a butterfly flaps it's wing. When an airplane coming out of Tokyo is late by two hours due to weather then it's late into Guam by 2 hours and may not have a gate for another hour. Which makes it late getting to Hawaii by 3 or more hours and may not have a gate there. Which makes it's late getting to LAX by 4 or 5 hours, and then to New York by 6 or 7 hours. Where upon the flight to London gets canceled due to no airplane; i.e., the weather in Tokyo.

Sometimes it takes days to catch up.

So a flight gets canceled in Phonpei due to weather. What do you expect the airline to do. They don't have the staff to book hotels much less have the hotels to book people into. What part of "there is no well oiled plan" don't you get. There is no plan because there are no options. You can't make a plan when there are no options. It's not Kansas anymore. They probably don't have enough cars to get the staff home that night, much less 150 passengers. Do you know what it's like to stand behind that podium and try and reason with 150 people that would like to cut your throat. I once watched a gate agent in Newark get the tar beaten out of him by angry passengers because the 2 feet of snow on the ramp made it impossible to park the airplane.

---------- Post added July 14th, 2015 at 11:57 PM ----------

You make a lot of assumptions in your post. It would appear that you are a United Employee, pilot perhaps, as well as a diver. So ok you know the deal there, great!

We are mere passengers and know stuff all about rules, pilot issues, particular route issues. Nor should we as we do not own, work for an airline. We are customers and we have an expectation that if we pay for a ticket, then we get the service. Ok so airlines are not libel for flight issues relating to weather, we all get that and understand, bad weather happens and its no ones fault and better safe on the ground than dead because we flew. On our particular flight we had additional pilots on the flight, so perhaps they could have handled the extra flight time if it were incurred? Not sure so perhaps not and maybe they were just in transit so not available to fly. Whilst this is all frustrating to the customer and not normally understood, most accept that weather can and will cause an abort, delay or flight to somewhere else. Yes I accept that United don't have heaps of planes hanging about just in case, if they did they would be broke. I get all of that. Just don't promise a flight that does not exist just to try and keep people happy, a lie does nothing for the credibility of the company.

What is NOT acceptable is the poor service in dealing with customers who have been dumped at the next port of call. It doesn't cut it to say they are less than a third world country. Does United employ monkeys so they keep costs down, no. They are people and just need training in how to deal with this event. I don't actually blame the locals, I blame management in not providing them with the skills to deal with clearly a common occurrence. They said it has happened quite regularly in the last few months, so a common enough occurrence to plan for and keep the customers informed and happy enough. I actually felt very sorry for the local manager, clearly he was under the hammer and had no support.

I am not suggesting red carpet hotels and drinks, I am talking information and direction. Many of the customers don't know the area, may not have travelled much so are not only lost but feel abandoned. Please forget the rubbish about Truk making it worth while sleeping on concrete floors until a flight is available. You are trying to trivialise the trauma that many feel. For some it was their first dive trip overseas. As I said, I am not suggesting huge costs, I am suggesting good information and emotional support. Often the only cost associated with this is training for the employees, and it generates a power of good will.

Read my previous post below!

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I am not upset with United that they had to drop us at Pohnpei, that's just bad luck. I understand that they didn't have sufficient seats for everyone the same day. I also understand that the next day they could not get everyone on. They however promised to look at a rescue flight given the number of passengers (70) and the remoteness of the place and few flights, however I personally don't believe this ever was a serious option that was going to happen. Its not that the disaster happened, its how you handle the aftermath that matters most. The reps first words were to convince everyone that the WERE NOT paying for accommodation.

How about something novel, the truth and some reassurance that they are doing something. We stupidly made the assumption the airline would take care of us by providing direction on what to do etc. After all its not the first time this has happened I am sure.

I would try something like this;

1. Rebook for future flights (locals did and got the few seats on the next flight)
2. We will keep you informed and your contact person is ???
3. We are looking into a rescue flight however its very remote as we just don't have planes laying about spare, they all fly to be profitable so usually non available.
4. There is a flight tomorrow and then non until Saturday,then one sunday evening, but spare seats are limited.
5. We can assist in getting you accommodation (however we will not be paying for it under the airline rules of bad weather).
6. For those who have not yet gotten a new flight, come down to the airport tomorrow at 9 for us to rebook

etc etc.

What people need is certainty, even if its the fact there are no seats for 2 days. At least then people can go find accommodation and shower and relax. To be in a hot humid small airport after being awake for 26 hrs, with no certainty of anything, and to be kept there for hours being strung along on the perhaps chance there might be a flight is a poor way to deal with people. Just cut the bull, be honest and let people move on to the next issue.

We then had to face the fact that there was no accommodation available for Friday evening as they are having a convention here. So are we to all sleep on the concrete floor with no food, no showers, nothing? We suggested to them that whilst they have no legal obligation to do anything, but perhaps a moral obligation given the circumstances and 70 people. They should be prepared for this given the location and risks. Its not huge cost in any way at all and certainly would be good for PR. Very easy for a bean counter in Chicago to make decisions about people stuck on a remote island with nothing available.

As I said, all of the people I spoke with had the same comments. Its how you deal with the event that matters most.

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Peter you are cracking me up and you are very condescending in your remarks. It is not I who is making assumptions it is you and many are incorrect.

The truth, You say and I quote " Ok so airlines are not libel for flight issues relating to weather, we all get that and understand,"

But you don't really get it. You don't understand. You think the airline should be obligated to provide a hotel, some transportation, a few meals, a voucher for a couple of free flights and so on.

The truth, No, I don't work for United Airlines. I do not represent them in any shape or fashion, nor, do I speak for them.

The truth, I make no assumptions. I am giving you the straight poop and you don't want to hear it. What did Col Jessep say? "The truth, you want the truth. You can't handle the truth."

The truth, no one promised a rescue flight. Maybe a passenger suggested it and in island tradition the staff said. "We will check on that". The people of Phonpei are the kindest, most caring, most beautiful people on the planet. They are not used to dealing with pissed off foreigners.

The truth, there were no extra pilots. They were IRO"s assigned to the flight so the flying pilots could be relieved for a break to get some sleep. They follow the same rules as the flying pilots. They are part of the crew. They time out the same as everyone else.

The truth, there are no spare airplanes.

The truth, it's a remote island in the middle of nowhere and as soon as that airplane leaves, the staff goes home and won't be back until the next flight comes through the next day. They get paid a couple of hours work a day and that's it.

The truth, there are no hotels or even showers available. You are going to sleep on a concrete floor that has beetle nut spit all over it.

The truth, yes you are suggesting huge costs. It comes out of the stations budget. How about they send everyone to Chicago for a 2 week training period. Would that make you happy? Most of the staff do not even have passports.

The truth, you can't even rent a car because there are none. The few cars and pickup trucks are already rented.

The truth, the bathroom is so filthy, I used it once in the four years I flew that route. Once was enough.

The truth, I am not trying to trivialize anything. That's only in your mind. Chuuk is some of the finest diving in the world and is worth almost anything to get there and dive it. If it means sleeping on the floor, missing a few meals then so be it.

The truth, You want emotional support, call your mama. Wait a minute, your cell phone won't work.

Nobody starves, nobody dies, nobody gets hurt. People get inconvenienced. Some look at it as a great adventure, like trekking Mount Blanc or riding the train in India or hiking to the top of Mount Fiji San. Some don't. If you want the President's Club then don't travel to the remote islands and expect first class service.

You admit that the airline has no legal obligation. So why are you still complaining?

 

[Peter69_56]

The truth, You say and I quote " Ok so airlines are not libel for flight issues relating to weather, we all get that and understand,". But you don't really get it. You don't understand. You think the airline should be obligated to provide a hotel, some transportation, a few meals, a voucher for a couple of free flights and so on. Show me where I asked for all this in my post" I asked for advice and instruction on what now to do?

The truth, No, I don't work for United Airlines. I do not represent them in any shape or fashion, nor, do I speak for them. I agree that was an incorrect assumption by me, I stand corrected

The truth, no one promised a rescue flight. Maybe a passenger suggested it and in island tradition the staff said. "We will check on that". The people of Phonpei are the kindest, most caring, most beautiful people on the planet. They are not used to dealing with pissed off foreigners. You were not there, I was, we were promised a chance of a rescue flight, but it was then explained there were no aircraft available. I accept the situation but please do not tell me what happened when you were not there.

The truth, there were no extra pilots. They were IRO"s assigned to the flight so the flying pilots could be relieved for a break to get some sleep. They follow the same rules as the flying pilots. They are part of the crew. They time out the same as everyone else. And that was what I said, I said they were probably not available although they were on the flight so what is your point to mention this again?

The truth, there are no spare airplanes. Yes we were made aware of that and I said that so what is your point to mention this again.

The truth, it's a remote island in the middle of nowhere and as soon as that airplane leaves, the staff goes home and won't be back until the next flight comes through the next day. They get paid a couple of hours work a day and that's it. The truth, there are no hotels or even showers available. You are going to sleep on a concrete floor that has beetle nut spit all over it. That I understand, and it would have taken the same time for staff to go through a well rehearsed routine of explaining the issues, how to live with them and what to do in the mean time and when to come back to the airport. That is a reasonable expectation of customers of the airline. Instead they sprouted the company line "We will not pay for accommodation".

The truth, yes you are suggesting huge costs. It comes out of the stations budget. How about they send everyone to Chicago for a 2 week training period. Would that make you happy? Most of the staff do not even have passports. I never suggested the huge costs you suggest, I never suggested take everyone to Chicargo, why would anyone do that? , a trainer could tour the island chain and train the managers to deal with these situations at minimal training cost. Thus a good PR exercise when these situations happen. Please don't tell me the cost as I do this as part of my job and its not huge costs and is only a once off.

The truth, you can't even rent a car because there are none. The few cars and pickup trucks are already rented. I agree but there are taxi's so where is the problem, I had no issue with transport and never complained about that.

The truth, the bathroom is so filthy, I used it once in the four years I flew that route. Once was enough. Yes I agree, and your point is?

The truth, I am not trying to trivialize anything. That's only in your mind. Chuuk is some of the finest diving in the world and is worth almost anything to get there and dive it. If it means sleeping on the floor, missing a few meals then so be it. That's your opinion you are welcome to it.

The truth, You want emotional support, call your mama. Wait a minute, your cell phone won't work. There were a number of people there who had never travelled, they may not be like you, having apparently travelled a lot and used to crap conditions. Although the airline cant change the conditions, they can offer good advice over a "We are not paying" comment. Your sarcasm does nothing to strengthen your argument.

Nobody starves, nobody dies, nobody gets hurt. People get inconvenienced. Some look at it as a great adventure, like trekking Mount Blanc or riding the train in India or hiking to the top of Mount Fiji San. I agree Some don't. If you want the President's Club then don't travel to the remote islands and expect first class service. I don't expect first class service and never ever said that, you are the one implying that. I have only asked for a little help for stranded customers. Simple basic things that's reasonable from any country.

You admit that the airline has no legal obligation. So why are you still complaining? They have an obligation to provide decent advice to help alleviate the inconvenience of not providing the service to the correct destination. There is no financial obligation at all and I agree its as it should be, however after not providing the correct service, how about giving advice of how to deal with the situation, given most are now a bit lost with it all?

Anyway clearly we agree to disagree, lets not bore others with this conversation any further and move on to what this forum is about, diving.

 

[Centrals]

If the airline has the exclusive right on the route and tourists are willing to pay the premium. There is no incentive for the airline to improve its service. It is take it or leave it.
Mile for mile it is the most expensive route(Guam to Truk) that I had ever flown. But I have no choice.

 

[Manneca]

United is getting worse and worse. If any of y'all are interested in flying you should read flyertalk.com It's a frequent flyer board. They have a forum for United. If you read it, you'd never fly them again. Not everyone can do it, but if you are flying UA, I'd allow two or three days to get to your destination. If there is bad weather anywhere, the entire system goes down.

Of course if you're going to Truk, it's the only way to get there.

Not everyone can do it, but certainly if you can, no matter which airline you're flying, allowing a day or two lee way is always a good thing. I know, particularly those of us in the States who get only a few days of vacation a year, it's almost impossible.

On trip insurance. I do 4-5 dive trips a year. Trip insurance, as I have priced it, costs close to 10 percent of the trip. So, it's a risk benefit analysis. What is the risk that the entire trip will go south? Probably a lot less than 10 percent. I bought trip insurance early on in my travel. There was a pilot's strike, we had to drive from Cairns to Sydney and thus lost one part of the trip. What I recovered was just about the cost of the trip insurance. So, I self insure. I realize that if you are doing one expensive trip a year, are on a very, very tight schedule, are in poor health or have family in poor health, there may be very good reasons to buy trip insurance. This is just my perspective.

We'll see how I feel after my upcoming trip to Jakarta on UA and ANA. I've booked a total of 6 days after the scheduled arrival in Jakarta to get to Biak for the boat.

 

[Maverick17]

"Really,"airlines blame every possible delay" and you base this on what information. That is total nonsense. You have not a clue what you are talking about on this issue. "

You are obviously tied to airlines and your unrealistic comments are not accurate. I, and pretty much everyone, agrees that weather was the cause here and the pilots acted appropriately. I even agreed that there was likely no aircraft immediately available in GUM, and that ground staff made it up to sound helpful etc. But 5 days for a response is not acceptable to anyone nor should it be. But it's apparently ok to the airline employee, which shows exactly why people are unsatisfied with airlines. When a diversion happened on Midway last year, United had a replacement plane within 36 hours, even dealing with the birds there. If an airline can't figure out a replacement in a day or two, and they don't have a plan for IRROPS that is better than 5 days, then they are severely incompetent and they have not trained their workers well.

As for my info, I have no desire to argue or reveal any sources. You wouldn't believe me if I said I knew $mi$ek himself. I stand by my claim, standard procedure is to blame delays on weather as often as possible, and only admit to a MX or other delay when finally confirmed by management.

As for Flyertalk, the United forum does list many problems. However, the same is true for every other airline on the site, there are many complaints for each. The site has loads of good info, and many insiders, but it also is a place for venting and attracts many complaints.

 

[boulderjohn]

So I read the arguments as to why it was unrealistic to expect United to do anything different in this case. It seems to me that the argument that was made can be summarized this way: "What you consider to be really, really crappy customer service is actually an understandable and necessary consequence of the need for the airline to maintain a healthy profit margin."

That is the balancing act that faces every business in the world. Providing customer service at any level impacts the bottom line, but businesses must provide an adequate level of service or they will lose too many unhappy customers and go out of business.

A good example of this is with Apple computers. In the early days of personal computers, I was a dedicated Apple user. Then came a change in management that brought in a "screw the customer to maximize profits" attitude. According to someone I know who went to work for Apple a couple of years ago, veteran employees talk openly about it, referring to that era as "the dark ages." Apple almost went under, and then it changed management again and reversed the philosophy. I understand that they have a good reputation now. I don't know for sure, though. I felt so absolutely thoroughly screwed in those dark ages that I told them I would never buy another Apple product as long as I lived, and I so far not been able to bring myself to break that vow.

It seems to me that all airlines are currently in the "screw the customer to maximize profits" mode of thought. Perhaps they are trying to see just how far they can cut back on seat comfort, flight availability, service, etc. until they face a true consumer rebellion. United may well be among the leaders of the pack in that regard. A friend of mine is a travel agent who will not book a customer on United unless she really, really has to. I just flew United to Scotland and back myself, and that experience taught me to do all I can to avoid them as well. When enough people do that, then perhaps the pendulem will swing back to making the customer happy, even if it is only a little.

 

[JohnnyC]

Interesting article on the "cost" of an airline flight. This is a single domestic flight, you can extrapolate up. It's easy to see how airlines are running on such tight margins. Somewhere between 1% and 4% profit depending on whose numbers you use.

Airline Cost

 

[boulderjohn]

Interesting article on the "cost" of an airline flight. This is a single domestic flight, you can extrapolate up. It's easy to see how airlines are running on such tight margins. Somewhere between 1% and 4% profit depending on whose numbers you use.

Airline Cost

What is deceptive about this is that the slim profit margins include the cost of executive salaries. Over the past decades, executive salaries, even at the middle management level, have skyrocketed. Google the topic and see how much has been written on it. Here is one article from Business Day magazine. Here is an excerpt:

Economists have long known that high executive pay has contributed to the widening gap between the very rich and everyone else. But the role of executive compensation may be far larger than previously realized.

In “Capital in the 21st Century,” (Belknap Press), a new best seller that is the talk of economics circles, Thomas Piketty of the Paris School of Economics makes a staggering observation. His numbers show that two-thirds of the increase in American income inequality over the last four decades can be attributed to a steep rise in wages among the highest earners in society. This, of course, means people like the C.E.O.s in the Equilar survey, but also includes a broader class of highly paid executives. Mr. Piketty calls them “supermanagers” earning “supersalaries.”

“The system is pretty much out of control in many ways,” he said in an interview.

A couple decades ago, when executives were merely well paid, airlines could provide decent customer service and still maintain a healthy profit margin. But it is now necessary to cut back on customer service so that people at the management level can live lives of luxury such as we mere mortals cannot begin to understand.

 

[ev780]

WOW! Someone defending the airlines! Obviously someone who does not have to deal with them as a "commoner!!" If you did you would be picking up the pitch fork as well.

There is a simple thing I hope to help you understand Zeagle Eagle. We have all of our choices taken away, shoved like cattle into a metal tube and shot through space. Then we are dropped into a foreign land with no assistance offered by the people who drop us there. The airlines g**damn f***ing well do have a moral obligation to take care of us when they can not fulfill their end of the contract. They have found a way to shirk that obligation at every opportunity and we meekly take it. This will change in time trust me. Yes we have basically two choices go or not go. But if we choose to fly then the airline has some obligations also.

Now let me tell my United story that has me so angry.

Flying to Chuuk as well for a week of liveaboard diving. On the trip out the 777 sputtered on the runway in HNL and we were delayed 3 hours or so getting a replacement. The flight to Guam is 8 hours and then we were connecting to Chuuk. Obviously missed that connection. In the 8 hours we were in the air, the CSA's in Guam found us a hotel, shuttle, and rebooked a 777 load of people to their appropriate destination. We were treated nicely and all things were handled as well as can be expected. On the return we had almost the same thing happen. We loaded in Guam on probably the same 777 and it also had some engine issues. Three hours later the plane was fixed and we were on out way. In the 8 hours we were in the air, the CSA's in Honolulu did......absolutely nothing!!! So we asked where do we go to wait? Not our problem say they. OK well it is nice and air conditioned with some chairs down by baggage claim where we can wait out the 8-10 hour delay until we could figure our way out of this mess. Well they ran us out of there saying we couldn't stay there either. (yeah yeah yeah not United's fault. But it really is. The airport and the airlines are in this together and they should take care of people like us who have all of their options taken away.) Only place available was outside with the homeless. And I am not exaggerating!! It seems that the HNL homeless have basically the same needs as stranded passengers. A place to rest and some bathroom facilities. I spent the night on a stainless steel metal bench used by the agriculture people to inspect bags in the heat and humidity. Became violently ill as a result. My compensation, 7,500 FF miles! Not even enough for an upgrade.

So don't try and defend the airlines. We have to give up all of our freedom and choices in order to travel. We put our trust in people to get us to our destination quickly and safely and when that does not happen the people we trust should take care of us. No profit or margin bull$hit allowed when you have people trapped you had better take care of them or we will revolt. THAT REVOLT IS COMING SOON AND THE AIRLINES WILLL NO LIKE IT!!!! No one is asking for the airlines to put us all up at the Ritz every time there is a weather or mechanical delay but we have to be given basic human comforts and a place to be. And that most definitely should be in the contingency plans of every airline in the world.