Top Six Reasons why one would want to dive with a Full Face Mask

[Superlyte27]

The long hose is for the octopus.
If anyone is using Air 2 or something similar then you will have to tolerate your buddy breathing only inches away from your face.
The FFM is a lot heavier so it will eat away your precious allowance.

I think we're one the same page, but hung up with terminology....
We don't have octopuses in tech diving. The long hose is the primary in which I breathe off of normally, and is the thing I donate in an emergency, as I know it's working. It hasn't been clogged with rocks or mud. The OOG diver knows it's working, because I've been breathing off of it for quite some time. Which brings a bit of piece of mind. Usually, a necklace of bungee holds the secondary regulator just below the chin.

An Octopus is typically bungeed somewhere on the right side of a body in a recreational rig, usually pretty low by some sort of retainer. It could be cracked, broken, filled with mud, rocks, sand, etc. It may or may not work. You and your buddy really don't know until he has taken that first breath. In using a FFM, this octopus would be what is donated to an OOG diver.

 

[Akimbo]

It should be mentioned that FFMs have an increased dead air space due to the added volume of the oral-nasal mask. An ill-fitting seal on the oral nasal mask makes it significantly worse. This is important because it compounds the problem of ventilating CO2 out of the mask.

There is a natural tendency for people to take shallow breaths when breathing through their nose, which further compounds the problem. This is a minor problem if the diver is working because of high respiratory rates. However, it is a problem for more relaxed recreational divers and photographers. It is important for FFM users to develop deeper breathing techniques and have greater awareness of the onset of CO2 symptoms.

The option to add wireless communications is a significant advantage of FFMs, but users should be aware of the realities. To be useful it requires a second FFM diver with communications and/or a surfaced-based unit on the boat. The equipment and training cost can be significant. In addition there is a maintenance issue, as with everything battery-powered.

Typically, wireless diver comm systems include a mic installed in the oral nasal mask, a waterproof ear-piece held in place by the FFM's spider, and a small housing all hard-wired together. The housing contains the battery, electronics, and transducer. Many divers find that these added components increase the hassle-factor... a small and necessary price to pay if you NEED voice communications in Scuba.

Also divers must be aware of the limitations of ultrasonic transmissions. They are significantly compromised by topography and obstacles like wrecks. It can work fine for two divers in the same compartment of a wreck but can be useless for communicating to divers outside the wreck or to the boat. Similar problems can occur on a wall and in deep crevices. Boat to diver communications can also be compromised when the diver is on the surface in sloppy sea states.

Recreationally trained divers really should take a class so they can re-learn how to handle air-sharing, gas switching, barfing, CO2 management, gas management, and losing normal access to oral inflation options. You really need to think through the fact that your whole face is covered and how that can change everything from talking to people on the boat to inflating a signal sausage.

 

[knotical]

I've had very little exposure to FFMs, but recall watching them vent air continuously. Is that common? Seemed wasteful.

 

[Akimbo]

I've had very little exposure to FFMs, but recall watching them vent air continuously. Is that common? Seemed wasteful.

Probably a face seal leak. For example the seal leaks at the forehead due to hair or the hood interfering. The regulator diaphragm will sense a lower pressure in the mask and feed gas at the rate of the leak when the diver is upright. It can also be a regulator leak due to wear or adjustment.

 

[Superlyte27]

Or he was watching a KM Band Mask, surface supplied with the vent opened.

 

[Centrals]

Recreationally trained divers really should take a class so they can re-learn how to handle air-sharing, gas switching, barfing, CO2 management, gas management, and losing normal access to oral inflation options. You really need to think through the fact that your whole face is covered and how that can change everything from talking to people on the boat to inflating a signal sausage.

Sound a lot more complicated than most of the so called speciality courses!
I wonder which agency offer FFM course for recreational divers?

 

[Akimbo]

Sound a lot more complicated than most of the so called speciality courses!
I wonder which agency offer FFM course for recreational divers?

Good question. I don't really know if the courses are agency or factory. A factory course would be specific to the FFM while an agency could would presumably be generic to several brands of FFMs -- excluding the KM Band Mask of course.

BandMask 18 | Kirby Morgan

 

[Colliam7]

Sound a lot more complicated than most of the so called speciality courses! I wonder which agency offer FFM course for recreational divers?

Well, PADI does, through several Distinctive Specialties related to FFM. I didn't find it particularly complicated, but I may not be a good representative of the 'usual and customary' recreational diver. I think Akimbo's points are well-taken. The only thing we did not cover, as I recall it, in my recreational FFM DS, was the barfing in the FFM. I hadn't really thought about that until this thread. But, then, i have only be sea sick once, and have never had the need to barf into my second stage.

Essentially, in certain scenarios, you are faced with going to your alternate, after removing your FFM, and deploying your back-up mask. It makes sense, at least to me, and wasn't a significant problem in practice.

 

[kwinter]

Most of what has been posted in this thread is true, on both sides of the issue. But I have used FFMs for years on both open circuit and rebreathers, for recreational and technical diving. I feel there is one indisputable issue and that is safety. Safety provided by the FFM in case of unconsciousness. Safety provided by the comms. Yes, there is a cost to this, both financially and in complexity. But I once went back through the accidents and incidents reported over a one year period. A good case could be made in over 80% of the incidents that FFM and comms would have significantly improved the odds of survival or reduced injury. If you could take a poll of those accident and incident victims, I think the pros would outweigh the cons by a wide margin. I have lost several close friends in diving incidents. I can't think of a single one where having a FFM and comms wouldn't mean a much better chance they would still be around.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[halocline]

Both of you make valid points. We are just trying to create new topics for discussion. I will take notes and do better next time.

Oh please, you're trying to sell stuff. Which is fine, of course, you're a dive shop, that's what you do and your service reputation is stellar. But do us all a favor and stop the "its a discussion, not an advertisement" bit. Just call it what it is.

---------- Post added October 23rd, 2015 at 08:05 AM ----------

As for the marketing issue, I am not sure there is anything wrong with that. In this case, it wasn't at all oppressive, there weren't FFM ads included in the post, and I have seen much more aggressive marketing in a lot of threads on SB. As that 'interesting' US President, Cal Coolidge, said, 'The chief business of the American people is business.' So, maybe the OP was doing a little business. Aren't we all?

Nope. Some of us are here just for recreation, interesting conversation, and to learn. Others are here to sell. The problem I have is when the selling is couched as something else. It lessens the discussion. Of course, not all discussions on this board are so erudite that the intrusion of commerce is a tragedy. Sometimes it's kind of funny, like the beav's intrepid efforts to prevent we BP/W users from killing ourselves.