[Dive computer] buying advice

[Centrals]

This sub-forum is for "new divers and those considering diving" so I really don't see the point of mentioning trimix and multiple gases.
Incidentally I use trimix occasionally as well as deco gases for technical diving but never own anything other than basic nitrox computer or just plain bottom timer.

If I am in the market looking for a computer for recreational diving. It has to be:
1. Cheap
2. User replaceable battery
3. Nitrox compatible.

 

[stuartv]

This sub-forum is for "new divers and those considering diving" so I really don't see the point of mentioning trimix and multiple gases.

Like I said to begin with, Recreational Trimix seems to be a thing now. IANTD offers Recreational Trimix for any diving deeper than 80 feet. Only prereqs are OW + Deep and be at least 15 years old. If a new diver is training with an IANTD instructor, non-deco diving with Trimix could be in their very near future. In which case, if they are shopping for a computer, they should be aware of the issue. If they buy a Nitrox-only computer, they should do so purposefully, not by accident, so as to avoid the "I'm ready to go deeper. What now? Rec TX? What? I need to buy a new computer for that?!?" moment.

 

[Centrals]

Like I said to begin with, Recreational Trimix seems to be a thing now. IANTD offers Recreational Trimix for any diving deeper than 80 feet. Only prereqs are OW + Deep and be at least 15 years old. If a new diver is training with an IANTD instructor, non-deco diving with Trimix could be in their very near future. In which case, if they are shopping for a computer, they should be aware of the issue. If they buy a Nitrox-only computer, they should do so purposefully, not by accident, so as to avoid the "I'm ready to go deeper. What now? Rec TX? What? I need to buy a new computer for that?!?" moment.

So any diver should consider buying a trimix computer because they might want to go deeper in the future. I have been diving technical since 1998 and also trimix certified but I never owe a multigas computer let alone a trimix compatible one. There are options other than dedicated computers.

 

[Diving Dubai]

As usual - SB has gone way over the top and personal preferences are at the top of the agenda.

For a diver (the VAST majority) carrying out single tank dives using AL 80 etc. The basic computers from Cressi, Sunnto et al will be fine. I dived a Cressi for my 1st 100 or so dives, and never had an issue with running out of NDL - because I wasn't diving every dive to 30m. Even 4 dives a day the cressi was fine as long as you had 90min surface intervals.

Now if you're moving to say Twins or mixed gasses for accelerated decompression (outside the scope of the New divers forum) then yes, you can push a computer over the NDL as you have more gas reserves. However you should have taken more advance classes and have a good understanding of Decompression theory and thus you understand the controlling factors and are able to make a personal judgement on what level of conservatism you want.

The simple choices are either X time at depth with no deco obligations on a liberal computer OR the same time at the same depth incurring some minor deco stops (slowing your ascent) Neither computer will magically prevent you from getting bent. The more conservative one will lessen the risk, but there are so many other factors (age, health fitness hydration to name just a few)

I'm firmly in the camp of keep it simple, get a basic computer that's easy to read and operate while you learn to dive and gain experience. When and if you decide to go into more advance diving then time to re assess. By then computers will have changed and you'll be spending more than a few $100 on extra kit and training anyway.

But this is only my opinion and should be treated as such

 

[BoltSnap]

This is the best value entry level computer with most features you will need, far better than the Suunto Zoop or the Cressi. You can buy it as a console with compass and pressure gauge if you need them or just a simple wrist computer:

VEO 2.0

This is a slightly better computer wit more features including two nitrox gases (watch style):

Geo 2.0

Both are reasonably priced and are a much better value than Suunto or Cressi (by a wide margin)

BTW, I have Suunto and Cressi computers and will never buy them again with the current offerings and prices (and the lack of reliability for Cressi).

 

[stuartv]

So any diver should consider buying a trimix computer because they might want to go deeper in the future. I have been diving technical since 1998 and also trimix certified but I never owe a multigas computer let alone a trimix compatible one. There are options other than dedicated computers.

That's great. But times change. What was rare is now common. There are many new training courses and certifications compared to what was available 20 years ago.

And you may have missed what I said (in bold):

Like I said to begin with, Recreational Trimix seems to be a thing now. IANTD offers Recreational Trimix for any diving deeper than 80 feet. Only prereqs are OW + Deep and be at least 15 years old. If a new diver is training with an IANTD instructor, non-deco diving with Trimix could be in their very near future. In which case, if they are shopping for a computer, they should be aware of the issue. If they buy a Nitrox-only computer, they should do so purposefully, not by accident, so as to avoid the "I'm ready to go deeper. What now? Rec TX? What? I need to buy a new computer for that?!?" moment.

This is thread where the OP is seeking advice on a dedicated computer. So, noting that there are other options than a dedicated diving computer seems like a derail.

 

[stuartv]

For a diver (the VAST majority) carrying out single tank dives using AL 80 etc. The basic computers from Cressi, Sunnto et al will be fine. I dived a Cressi for my 1st 100 or so dives, and never had an issue with running out of NDL - because I wasn't diving every dive to 30m. Even 4 dives a day the cressi was fine as long as you had 90min surface intervals.

So, a Cressi or Suunto is what you would recommend to someone who is going to do 200 dives in the next year? If not, then do you know what the OP is going/planning to do? What about other new divers who read all this later?

Why not just give them the relevant information so that they can evaluate the information against their own experience and plans for the future? Giving them advice based on your own presumption that they are going to be just like the majority of vacation divers you see seems like you could easily steer someone into something you yourself wouldn't even recommend if you knew more about them and their future plans.

Buying a computer after learning the relevant info and deciding for yourself what is best for you is good and appropriate. Buying a computer while ignorant of much of the relevant info, and just based on some Internet experts saying "you're new? This XYZ computer will be fine for you. It was fine for me for my first 100 dives and you're going to be just like me, right?" Well, that is pretty well akin to a Trust Me dive, I think. A Trust Me purchase and since they are diving with the result of that, really a Trust Me dive, too. You're asking them to trust you on their computer choice, instead of trying to get them to learn enough to make their own decision. Buying a computer is not rocket science - but neither is it a choice between Pepsi or Coke.

 

[Diving Dubai]

@stuartv

Calm down old chap, we don't want you to have a medical at the keyboard

Bear in mind that we are in the New Divers forum.

Giving people all the information is worthwhile for sure. However on SB certainly on teh subject of computers teh new diver is subjected to information overload.

There are a couple of points here. New(er) divers haven't discovered what type of diving they like as yet. And yes you are right, some may have a desire to go tec, some may not.

The computer - specifically the algorithm subject can be a mine field there is so much information, and like any information it is generally delivered with the bias (intentionally or not) of the person giving that information .

It is never as simple as having the most conservative computer or the most liberal. Each has its pro's and con's. I personally would never suggest that a new diver picks the most liberal computer and blindly dives it. If someone had sought out all the relevant information pertaining to deco then they would be in a better position to judge which way was best. If not they should be informed of the risks with the most liberal and the potential implications of taking the conservative route.

I personally don't care if someone buys an entry level computer or a Perdix AI and run it is tec mode with the most aggressive GF settings they can.

I've also witnessed divers take a DSC hit diving conservative profiles on a conservative computer

What I suggest isn't necessarily based upon my personal experience, but I like to think I err on the side of caution. The caution comes from being out in the real world and having regular exposure with lots of divers on all different levels. My advice would be different if this post were in the advance section with someone with more experience.

Your advice is different. You have a different perspective, and you make a lot of research. Your perspective is based upon your research, your 2 years of diving (mostly in quarry's?) and little over 100 dives, but diving twinsets and mixed gasses.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If a new diver is interested in learning about decompression theory, and the benefits/drawbacks of different algorithms, I'd recommend picking up a copy of "Deco for Divers" by Mark Powell ... it's a much better resource than posts on ScubaBoard ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[uncfnp]

There are at least two sides to every opinion and dive gear is no exception.

There are posts of divers that ridicule conservative computers and tell stories about buying those and selling for something more reasonably liberal. When I bought my first dive computer I knew nothing of algorithms or the variations. I bought a reasonably priced entry level computer that my local LDS recommended and a slightly higher end model recommended for my significant other (this was before they really got to know us. Now they target me when we walk in together) But I digress. My original dc has no bells, whistles, or audible alarms for that matter. It is an Oceanic VEO 100nx with DSAT.

I would still dive this computer now if I hadn't had to go the other route and buy a second computer that was considered conservative.

So which is the better choice? There isn't one. Everyone is right. They are all safe for the individual diver, until its not. Each diver must make their own choice. And that choice may change as their diving changes. I do find it interesting that the traditionally liberal computer manufacturers are adding more conservative settings as the years progress and wonder what was the factor that brought about these changes.

Beyond algorithms, personally I wonder if a new diver isn't best served without all the extras so no dependency is learned beyond the basics.