Suggestion Why isn't there a "Men's Forum"?

[divad]

Just asking.

 

[uncfnp]

Nope.

As long as women hide behind fences and play in safe areas then they are undermining everything they have been fighting for. Yes, men don't always play nice. There is sexism. There is misogyny, yes there is chauvinism, but that same dysfunctional behaviour some men show to women they also show to each other.... Women are not special that way! If women want to be a part of that social system then they should not be hiding from it. Excluding men or avoiding interacting with them seems quite counter-productive to the emancipation of women, to my way of thinking.

So, again... why do we need a woman's forum?

A fairly insensitive and extremely inaccurate comment. As I have said before, if you want to be sure of getting a man's opinion, put your question in the women's forum. And that is fine as long as they are aware of the special circumstances. And its not that we are whimps or afraid of the chauvinist insensitive male but rather often hoping for a responce that takes into account the some times special circumstances of the female dive in a largely male dominated activity (and SB), although I have to admit that at least in the recreational setting this is no longer quite so true.

 

[Bubblesong]

"Not everyone who criticizes is an enemy, not everyone who give an easy pass is a friend" paraphrased.

 

[Diver0001]

A fairly insensitive and extremely inaccurate comment. .

Well... I didn't set out to make this a philosophical discussion about gender relations but look at it this way.

For the same reasons that apartheid is not good for race relations or excluding and avoiding religious or cultural minorities is not good for social development of the society and the integration of these (sub) cultures, the segregation of men and women from each other is not good for gender relations.

To me, what is ... well, wrong... is to somehow convince people that avoiding each other will help them get along better. It's illogical, it's immoral, it's cynical and it's damaging. No model of human interaction you will find that works to encourage peaceful relations, compassion and appreciation of the issues that people living in the same society find important given their specific needs and wants will be based upon "us versus them" thinking.

Ergo.... if you look at why I said what I said, it wasn't to be insensitive. To my way of thinking a man who IS sensitive to the needs of women who want to participate in a sport with a large male population will encourage women to take their place as equals and to ENGAGE men on equal terms, even if it's hard at times and even if some men are massive jerks.
Encouraging "us versus them" thinking and tacitly suggesting that women are somehow not strong enough to participate on equal footing to the point that they somehow need a safe area away from the men is a severe and damaging form of sexism. It's not fair to women and it doesn't get anyone any closer to equality.

If I say much more it will become a political discussion about the type of society we want to have but suffice it to say that "us versus them" thinking, segregation and avoiding one another are all "weak bids" in my opinion by people who would prefer to perpetuate discord as the preferred model of human interaction. This does not only apply to men who would prefer to see women away in a corner chattering amongst themselves but also women, some of whom may even call themselves "feminists" who believe that avoiding men is a good idea.

Like I said I didn't set out to make this a philosophical discussion but the question of why there isn't a "mens" forum can't really be answered unless you look at the issues in a broader perspective.

R..

 

[RainPilot]

I agree with everything you said @Diver0001 but here's the thing...
We don't get to have an opinion. If women want to have an exclusive area (which is not the SB one since it's men as well) then you and I have no right to even think that our opinions have any merit.

Until we have walked Into a room full of people who are all much larger than us and who mostly view us as an object we don't get to have an opinion.

Same with race, same with a lot of the social divisions. That's not to say we are wrong, it's just that it doesn't matter.

 

[Buliwyf]

I think the womens forum is great. If I need a question answered for a fellow female diver, I can ask there where I know there will be a greater concentration of female divers eyes on that thread.

If men chime in, I see no problem. I also see no problem with a Mens forum or Childrens forum.

It's not segregation, it's topics that are specific to Women, or Men, or Children.

I'm not going to post a "my nips get rubbed sore in my drysuit thread" in the "exposure suit" forum.

 

[Diver0001]

I agree with everything you said @Diver0001 but here's the thing...
We don't get to have an opinion. If women want to have an exclusive area (which is not the SB one since it's men as well) then you and I have no right to even think that our opinions have any merit.

Until we have walked Into a room full of people who are all much larger than us and who mostly view us as an object we don't get to have an opinion.

Same with race, same with a lot of the social divisions. That's not to say we are wrong, it's just that it doesn't matter.

I hear what you're saying and I think we need to focus our thinking a bit more.

Where it comes to gender relations, I think we're in a perfect position to have an opinion because we are part of that dynamic. Full stop. This is what I was getting at in my previous post.

That said, if women, or any other group decide that they want their own sandbox because of issues that they would rather discuss discretely, then I agree that nobody has a right to say that they're wrong to do that. To do so would be absurd, which is what I think you are saying, along with several others who have posted.

Both things are true but they are not the same thing.

R..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Why isn't the Women's forum opt-in? I wandered in there once, out of curiosity ... and when I realized that it was mostly guys talking about women's issues, I promptly wandered out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Buliwyf]

How many men here, have wifes that don't post here?

 

[Wookie]

How many men here, have wifes that don't post here?

Me

 

[Buliwyf]

So it makes sense that you might stumble into the womens forum from time to time.