DumpsterDiver emergency ascent from 180'

[HantsDiver]

Thank you!

So, if I have done my math correctly, and made the conversion from what some / many would consider to be an organized, mathematically logical system of measurement to a somewhat 'interesting' one , the AL 7 liter compares to an AL40 as follows:

Cylinder / Length / Diameter / Weight

AL 7 liter / 24.2" / 6" / 18.9lb
AL40 / 24.9" / 5.25" / 15.3lb

IOW, the 7 liter is a wee bit shorter, a wee bit fatter, and a wee bit heavier. If I ever have a chance, I'd like to try one.

Also, it is truly a 200 bar working pressure, or a 207?

They do come with different working pressures. I just pulled that spec of a website. I think you can even get 232bar ones. Mine are all 200 although people seem to fill them to 230/40 anyway.

They are a good size in my opinion. On a relaxed day I have enough gas for a couple of dives and to do my deco. They are also very cheap in comparison to the ali40 for us in the UK which means I like them even more.

 

[rjgiddings]

I must be very late to the party...why was DD banned from this site?

I've watched the video twice; be honest- who among us would be that collected if this was to happen to them?

 

[northernone]

I must be very late to the party...why was DD banned from this site?

I've watched the video twice; be honest- who among us would be that collected if this was to happen to them?

The reason why most of us don't dive like this is because there safer ways. The risk of needing collected is directly related to dive plan, the bailout strategy and execution of that contingency (if needed).

If a different equipment choice or dive plan will KEEP me further away from having this happen to them and another bailout plan is less risky I'm further away from needing collected.

People have bailed out from much worse situations from much greater depths but because their dive plan and contingency wasn't so controversial it didn't even make an interesting video.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[KevinNM]

Re NASA, volumes have been written on how failures and warnings were overlooked in the challenger loss. Perhaps this is a good analogy for DD's event. But not in the way you intended.

Both the Challenger and Columbia accidents were examples of Normalization of Deviance. There were 4 known bipod ramp foam losses prior to the loss of Columbia, and often the shuttle had minor foam strikes during ascent over the history of the program, but because nothing bad happened foam strikes had been accepted as all perfectly safe. This was despite foam strikes on the TPS being classified as a major issue formally.

 

[2airishuman]

People have bailed out from much worse situations from much greater depths but because their dive plan and contingency wasn't so controversial it didn't even make an interesting video.

Another fact to consider is that few such incidents have video published. DD dives often, and I surmise that he records video for every dive.

 

[northernone]

Another fact to consider is that few such incidents have video published. DD dives often, and I surmise that he records video for every dive.

Excellent point! My comparison being the driver dashcam videos are predominantly from countries where dashcams are most common. Not evidence those countries have the most incidents.

Personal illustration: I don't have any interesting diver behavior on film because I don't keep a camera rolling when things go pearshape underwater. I do hope diver body cams become fashionable for accident analysis and as this thread shows the results can be of great interest.

Having the fortitude to upload a video is also another consideration. The feeding frenzy can be intense. My SM cave diving friend took down a video him navigating a tight restriction after getting fired from a shop and receiving death threats on social media (ironically really)

 

[EricTheDood]

Okay, I'm glad you have perfect gear and it'll never fail... You are one special guy... I'm glad you know that every thing you do is safe and you can come to no harm... You live in a world that 99.99% of us don't... I've had brand new hose blow up.. I've had O-rings fail after only a few cycles... The trany in my brand new car went at 3000 miles and the second one had a pressure control problem in the valve body that I had to go to 3 dealers before I found a guy that knew what the hell he was doing and tracked it down and installed a 3rd trany...

People that think they are perfect and they only own the best... Are the ones that end up dead...

Jim....

You purposely use strawman arguments to get your point across. So be it.

As far as a "perfect gear", if I really believed that, I wouldn't be slinging a 19CF pony on every dive. I'm not saying (and never said) that a first stage can't fail. But I find it extremely hard to believe the DD's failure was caused by a factory defect.

I can flip your argument around and say that you're overly complacent. Step back for a second and think about what you're saying. Are first stage failures really acceptable?

 

[100days-a-year]

Having had Jim on my boat,seeing his gear and watching him dive I would prefer him on the boat to 99.999% of the self proclaimed safety experts,anoraks and chest beaters which seem to populate most accident and incident threads.
The video would seem to illustrate the need for a clear head at depth rather than an endorsement of any particular gear configuration.This thread reminds me of the old tech diver list and the rants and ravings there.

 

[StefinSB]

You purposely use strawman arguments to get your point across. So be it.

As far as a "perfect gear", if I really believed that, I wouldn't be slinging a 19CF pony on every dive. I'm not saying (and never said) that a first stage can't fail. But I find it extremely hard to believe the DD's failure was caused by a factory defect.

I can flip your argument around and say that you're overly complacent. Step back for a second and think about what you're saying. Are first stage failures really acceptable?

Believes should be reserved for church. Fact is neither you nor anybody else knows why the first stage failed and only DD knows the history of that stage. Like anything in life, first stages can fail. If you find that acceptable or not doesn't change the fact.

 

[Ana]

Having had Jim on my boat,seeing his gear and watching him dive I would prefer him on the boat to 99.999% of the self proclaimed safety experts,anoraks and chest beaters which seem to populate most accident and incident threads.
The video would seem to illustrate the need for a clear head at depth rather than an endorsement of any particular gear configuration.This thread reminds me of the old tech diver list and the rants and ravings there.

Everyone brings their bias to this type of threads.. it is just human. The thing is that now the person from Nebraska (or any other landlocked place) that had to learn to swim in his 30's because wanted to be a scuba diver is communicating with another person from a coastal area that most likely learned to swim before learning to walk.
There's just no comparison to their perspectives. You had and have kids using farm equipment as soon as they could get to the pedals up there right?. Kids that live in cities that only know the city ways. Well there are kids here in the coastal area that pretty much live IN the water; snorkeling, jumping off bridges, free diving, fishing, surfing, kayaking, boating and doing whatever is possible to do in the water. Even here there's a difference between the kids that live right on the water and the ones 15 minutes away.

These kids each grow up and have their very different outlook of the world. Many years ago these people wouldn't mix or even know about each other, much less see videos of what they did last weekend .

Now you have divers coming from all these groups looking for the BEST way to dive. But their definition of best is not the same, for some it has to be the safest possible way, for others the fastest, or the most dives, or whatever. For sure the most hated and controversial way is the one that follows the mantra "This way works for me" Specially if the one following that philosophy insist in showing everyone that it does work for them just fine.

When the time comes for DD to pass, there will be people that insist it was his cavalier attitude and lack of good practices, specially if it happens while diving... instead of thinking that putting that much time underwater the odds of happening there were very high.