Death in Cocos from shark attack

[mmmbelows]

It isn't hard to imagine, from the sharks view below at the right/wrong angle, that a diver with their arms out in a treading water motion with the sun above, would look a whole lot like a turtle silhouette swimming to the surface. Seeing as tiger sharks eat turtles, this could be very similar to the Great Whites and surfer mistaken identities as seals.

2 people involved in this, I don't think they were swimming on top of each other to appear like one giant turtle from below- divemaster recognized the need to intercede with the tiger before it attacked either of them so doubt the tiger was zooming in from below...

 

[drrich2]

We should be mindful a bang stick is basically a modified gun and routinely carrying them around on dives could in theory risk accidents or malfunctions with discharge and injury. And odds of a staff being well placed to fend off a shark in that setting - wonder what those are?

I’m not a big fan of gun control as sometimes conceptualized, but I recognize there’s a risk. Since a bang stick-preventable shark attack seems rare, hard to say a bang stick would make people safer.

Richard.

 

[shamanrx]

It's a bang stick which kills or maims the shark.

Right I get that, and I do not want to kill sharks and definitely do not think hunting down the sharks for some sort of retribution or to catch the guilty shark is good, effective, or even possible. I guess what I was getting was if a limited lethal defense in limited hands (so only the dive masters) of some sort might be the right idea.

The last time I went to Cocos, there were reports of a large female tiger charging people on the night dives, and they had only recently started letting the Manuelita night dives happen again.

2 people involved in this, I don't think they were swimming on top of each other to appear like one giant turtle from below- divemaster recognized the need to intercede with the tiger before it attacked either of them so doubt the tiger was zooming in from below...

I'm purely speculating. We don't really have enough information yet to make informed decisions on our own though. Is there some sort of behavioral change we can make as divers in what we wear and how we position ourselves. I had the impression that the shark came from below, at least from all the articles I read. How close was she and the dive master? I don't think a duo would be as likely to create a turtle silhouette, I think it is more likely that a single person with arms out at a viewing angle from almost directly below would be the proper setup to confuse the shark. Again, pure speculation.

 

[boulderjohn]

We have been to both Cocos and the Galapagos and I rarely thought about being so remote in case of an emergency .

It depends a lot upon which island and your boat. When I was there, I was on an old, tippy, tub that was a last minute substitute (never understood why) for the nice, new, stable boat we were supposed to have. At one point in our trip we were warned that we were 24 hours away from medical help, and that help would come when our boat got to it. They emphasized that during the 48 hour round trip, all the guests would not be able to do the dives for which they had paid a lot of money, and they would be very angry about it. The message was loud and clear; "Think you might have DCS symptoms but aren't really sure? Keep it to yourself!"

That has nothing to do with sharks, of course, but it does speak to the remoteness of the site.

 

[shamanrx]

We should be mindful a bang stick is basically a modified gun and routinely carrying them around on dives could in theory risk accidents or malfunctions with discharge and injury. And odds of a staff being well placed to fend off a shark in that setting - wonder what those are?

I’m not a big fan of gun control as sometimes conceptualized, but I recognize there’s a risk. Since a bang stick-preventable shark attack seems rare, hard to say a bang stick would make people safer.

Richard.

Good points, I agree. It's the classic gun dilemma. Does the tool create more danger than it is protecting us from? At the rate that shark attacks on divers do happen, your concern is probably well founded.

 

[scubadada]

...In addition to this, what do the dive ops do now? I find myself leaning towards arming the dive masters with bangsticks. I've never used one or seen one used so my opinion here isn't super informed. However, from my understanding of how this unfolded, the dive master saw the tiger shark make a move and possibly would have had the chance to potentially "bang" the shark.

The bang stick would be best at protecting the DM. You would have to be close enough to the DM to have that protection extended to you. On many or most of our dives in Cocos, many of us were far enough from the DM that no help would have been possible, including at Manualita. I don't see this as a viable option.

What great advertising this would be for trips to Cocos. There are Tiger Sharks there so we have armed your DM with a bang stick. All you have to do is stay close enough that you can be protected. Sorry, that's not the way many of us dive when we do a trip like this. I'm going to Galapagos in April

 

[shamanrx]

The bang stick would be best at protecting the DM. You would have to be close enough to the DM to have that protection extended to you.

Ya you're right. I mean there is no way dive groups stay together all dive every dive, and most dives end with dive buddies doing safety and surfacing together. On some sites we did whole group ascents, but definitely not at Manuelita.

 

[mmmbelows]

Good points, I agree. It's the classic gun dilemma. Does the tool create more danger than it is protecting us from? At the rate that shark attacks on divers do happen, your concern is probably well founded.

We should be mindful a bang stick is basically a modified gun and routinely carrying them around on dives could in theory risk accidents or malfunctions with discharge and injury. And odds of a staff being well placed to fend off a shark in that setting - wonder what those are?

I’m not a big fan of gun control as sometimes conceptualized, but I recognize there’s a risk. Since a bang stick-preventable shark attack seems rare, hard to say a bang stick would make people safer.

Richard.

Well I hope you two never dive on a mixed boat with spear divers armed with spear guns, or somebody with a dive knife, or dive from a boat with an outboard motor. You're probably fine with those around, but because a powerhead has gun powder it's scary, scary time.

Divemaster wants to carry a powerhead with him on dives, so be it, I'd be worried about him having a powerhead with him as I'd be of his having a compass.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I wonder if this sort of interaction is actually teaching the shark that humans are harmless and not to be feared, causing the very same problems we claim we're trying to avoid ? That shark is getting way too familiar with humans/divers when it should have a fear/respect instead. You are teaching it that human/divers are weak/harmless = potential easy food.

The smallest tiger shark I even encountered while diving was probably about 8 ft in length and probably weighed as much as I did with all my dive gear; the biggest one was maybe 15 ft and at a minimum probably outweighed me by 1200 pounds. There's no reason for an apex predator that size to "fear" a diver unless they've learned divers are a mortal threat to the shark that will actively try to kill it. They may not consider us regular prey or may think we're too big to go down without a fight, but they're not going to flee the area upon seeing us.

On that note, bang sticks for DM's are probably more of a hazard on the boat than sharks. That is a firearm, but as I understand unlike say a handgun or a speargun there's not a trigger - if the safety is off, the cartridge fires when it hits something hard enough. Think of all the ways that could happen on a deck full of divers getting geared up, getting in and out of tenders, or during a group dive ... and unlike a shark, a customer getting injured by the DM's bang stick would be an easy lawsuit.

 

[shamanrx]

Well I hope you two never dive on a mixed boat with spear divers armed with spear guns, or somebody with a dive knife, or dive from a boat with an outboard motor. You're probably fine with those around, but because a powerhead has gun powder it's scary, scary time.

Personal attacks add nothing to the conversation, especially by insinuating we are scared of anything dangerous. I spear fish, I use dive knives, I know not to puree myself on an outboard, I mean hell, I drive a car! basically the most dangerous thing any of us do. When someone dies in a car accident we ask the basic questions, were they wearing a seatbelt, was that intersection safely designed, was the other driver impaired, stuff like that. It is poor form to attack people trying to talk out an issue or idea.

All things with inherit danger and power require certain precautions and training to use them safely, including bangsticks. In an earlier post I said I was leaning towards the option of arming the DMs with them. But on the statistical scale does that make sense? What happens when/if people are hurt/killed at a greater rate due to bangsticks than from shark attacks? Just because someone is a capable/safe gun user doesn't mean everyone will be. Save yourself some stress and don't jump to conclusions anytime someone speaks about safety concerns surrounding gunpowder weapons. I am certainly not advocating to take your guns away.

The whole point of all my questions is to get the the root cause of the victims death. Was is pure bad luck? Was there attack attracting gear or behavior on her part? Could this attack have been deterred with a countermeasure like a bangstick or electronic shark repellent? Would a larger group of divers been enough to deter an attack?

I know I want to go back to Cocos, I want to see the tiger sharks there, and I want to do it as safely as possible. Sometimes doing nothing different is the best option, but if the scuba community doesn't reflect and talk about rare issues like this from all angles then we can never be sure we are doing the right thing.