Thumbs down forum

[Texasguy]

I feel like many posts in "thumbs down" were moved unfairly. It is like cleaning the site of valid complains. Yes, some raised concerns are ridiculous but some do deserve to stay in the original forums from which they were moved. Moving topics and hiding the concerns raised in proper for that topic sub-forums seem shady and bad for the community in general. Also, putting really valid concerns together with the ridiculous ones in a same pile is a slap to whoever was brave enough to speak up. What is next? Move this post to thumbs down forum too?

There is a check math why moving such posts to a single forums is wrong. Unless you find reasons not to move positive posts into a single "thumbs up" forum, you choice is wrong when you substitute the logic.

Thus, I am informing you, you are doing a disservice to this community. It also seems a passive-aggressive way to remove the topic from view to pacify possible advertisers. I don't know about your reasons to move these topics, so far it seems very questionable.

 

[RainPilot]

I don't know about your reasons to move these topics

OK, I don't know which specific posts you are referring to, but I can speak to the general principle behind the moving of some threads to "Thumbs Down"

We don't moderate for facts. The community does that, and does it very well. However, we do keep an eye out for any posts that seem to be acting against the ethos of the Board (keep it friendly) and watch those closely. Sometimes, someone makes a complaint about another entity that, initially, seems to be a valid and good one. Then, as often happens, the community steps in and often new facts come to light which make the initial issue seem a lot less clearcut.

When that seems to be the case, we move the thread to thumbs down. This is because that forum is not Google viewable. We want the discussion but we don't want people abusing SB Google muscles for attacking someone unfairly.

Example. I start a thread " @The Chairman stole all my money and tried to drown my kids!!!"

Five posts later, it has been established that I am talking out my rear and that's great. However, if someone Googles Pete, because of how high our search rankings are, it is almost guaranteed that that thread will come up.

Often people will not read an entire thread to get the facts, they only read headlines, which would not be fair to Pete in this case. Our choice would be to delete the thread (censorship and not what we want to do) or move it somewhere where the discussion on the Board can happen freely but it is not going to harm others in the wider world.

This is not the only situation where we move threads, sometimes we will move threads that start regional and then end up covering a broad section, thread drift is real.

Also bear in mind, we mods are unpaid slaves volunteers, so we will make errors on the way. If you think we have, let us know and we will be happy to revisit the situation. Hit report on the "unfairly moved" thread or post and tell us why it shouldn't be.

 

[lowviz]

...//... Thus, I am informing you, you are doing a disservice to this community. It also seems a passive-aggressive way to remove the topic from view to pacify possible advertisers. I don't know about your reasons to move these topics, so far it seems very questionable.

You pretty much nailed it.

It started with a lawsuit against SB long ago. So much for that.

OK, guys. It has been long enough. This forum was formerly known as "Whine and Cheeze". Loved that name, but you see you couldn't just hide it from the search engines without feeling like you had to distract the community to pull it off. So the name was changed. I petition that you change it back.

"Thumbs Down" sounds like a holding bin for miscreants. "Whine and Cheeze" was a great place to blow off steam.

 

[Damselfish]

I always thought the name Whine and Cheese was good, and apparently missed when it got turned into "Thumbs Down" Maybe the objection here is partly because of the name of the forum, which has gone from being at least somewhat neutral to outright negative.

If the primary thing about the forum is that it won't turn up in a search, maybe the description (which seems to go better with "whine and cheese") should mention that. Maybe it should be called "For our eyes only" which doesn't have any particular positive or negative connotation.

 

[The Chairman]

It started with a lawsuit against SB long ago. So much for that.

Sorry, but your facts are so wrong as to be laughable. All criticisms of ScubaBoard, including lawsuits, and myself remain where they are posted. Staff is not allowed to edit or move those. If we are ordered by a judge or judgment to censor or move an item, we're going to follow those directives. The only thing we censored from that law suit was to auto-censor their name. From now on she is known as "She who shall not be named". Other than that, I ain't skeered of people trying to besmirch my reputation. I do more harm than anyone else could ever think of doing.

"Thumbs Down" sounds like a holding bin for miscreants. "Whine and Cheeze" was a great place to blow off steam.

Oh, how I loved that name! But the community asked us to change it, so we did. We do try and listen, but not everyone agrees. Moreover, they assign motives to us that just don't exist.

As best as I can tell, over 2/3s of the threads in "Thumbs Down" are there by the OP's choice. When I go to see where it came from I get "No moderator actions have been logged." It's hard for me to apologize for leaving these threads where they originated.

Most of the time when we do move a thread into that forum, it appears that someone is trying to force a business into doing something they don't want to do. Often, we receive evidence from a business that this is the case such as an email stating "If you don't do X, we're going to post this on ScubaBoard!" What to do here? The complaint might be valid or semi-valid, but do you really think we should reward this kind of cyber-extortion? Of course not. We don't always need evidence as it's often obvious that there are huge holes in the story and that they're just trying to do harm to a business. Here's a stinker: Death threat Now the OP wants us to remove the entire thread because it was all a "misunderstanding". That was premeditated to cause harm and it's obvious as are most of the threads in the forum.

When a company screws up they should own up. We tell them that all the time and especially advertisers. We will not remove an unflattering review unless there is a compelling reason to do so. That doesn't include a company simply complaining or being an advertiser. They have to show us how a thread is problematic. That includes both distortion and extortion. We try not to vet facts and allow our users to do just that. However, ethics compels us to step in from time to time and keep good people from being needlessly hurt.

ScubaBoard is not afraid of the truth. We actually thrive on controversy and we have no reason to squash our relevancy by moving controversy to a forum that search engines can't find. Let that sink in for a moment. I certainly hope this helps.

 

[Caveeagle]

I am aware of one thread regarding a deceased diver that seemed to "disappear" after a VERY rude poster started asking about buying said divers gear from the widow/family.

Not sure if that was what this whole "thumbs down" thingy is about, but If that's the case, I approve.

There should always be at least one adult in the room.

 

[RayfromTX]

Sorry, but your facts are so wrong as to be laughable. All criticisms of ScubaBoard, including lawsuits, and myself remain where they are posted. Staff is not allowed to edit or move those. If we are ordered by a judge or judgment to censor or move an item, we're going to follow those directives. The only thing we censored from that law suit was to auto-censor their name. From now on she is known as "She who shall not be named". Other than that, I ain't skeered of people trying to besmirch my reputation. I do more harm than anyone else could ever think of doing.

Oh, how I loved that name! But the community asked us to change it, so we did. We do try and listen, but not everyone agrees. Moreover, they assign motives to us that just don't exist.

As best as I can tell, over 2/3s of the threads in "Thumbs Down" are there by the OP's choice. When I go to see where it came from I get "No moderator actions have been logged." It's hard for me to apologize for leaving these threads where they originated.

Most of the time when we do move a thread into that forum, it appears that someone is trying to force a business into doing something they don't want to do. Often, we receive evidence from a business that this is the case such as an email stating "If you don't do X, we're going to post this on ScubaBoard!" What to do here? The complaint might be valid or semi-valid, but do you really think we should reward this kind of cyber-extortion? Of course not. We don't always need evidence as it's often obvious that there are huge holes in the story and that they're just trying to do harm to a business. Here's a stinker: Death threat Now the OP wants us to remove the entire thread because it was all a "misunderstanding". That was premeditated to cause harm and it's obvious as are most of the threads in the forum.

When a company screws up they should own up. We tell them that all the time and especially advertisers. We will not remove an unflattering review unless there is a compelling reason to do so. That doesn't include a company simply complaining or being an advertiser. They have to show us how a thread is problematic. That includes both distortion and extortion. We try not to vet facts and allow our users to do just that. However, ethics compels us to step in from time to time and keep good people from being needlessly hurt.

ScubaBoard is not afraid of the truth. We actually thrive on controversy and we have no reason to squash our relevancy by moving controversy to a forum that search engines can't find. Let that sink in for a moment. I certainly hope this helps.

For what it's worth....

While we all realize that people have their own perspective and way of looking at things and sometimes that POV will cause them to rationalize their actions, I have found that everything Pete just said rings true from what I have witnessed. Often, when we become moderators we are able to see that what seems like a conspiracy from the outside simply isn't. Around here, things usually have a simple explanation. Behind the scenes are a lot of good people trying to do the right thing for the right reason. We love our members and our forums and we do what we can to protect them with the time we have to offer.

 

[flyboy08]

On our motorcycle forum, it's called Jo Momma.......

 

[Bubblesong]

Although though the Thumbs Down forum is not searchable from Google, it is searchable within Scubaboard, so our community can still read even the extortionate posts on any place person or shop they search. Since most cyber-harassers multi-post everywhere they can, Facebook pages, Travelocity, Yelp, and NEVER come back to Scubaboard, they aren’t even going to know what happened to their post!

 

[Kharon]

LOL at myself. I though that "Thumbs Down" was a forum for complaints (thumbs down on this or that equipment, dive shop, etc.). Never thought of it as thumbs down on the post.