Jacket BCD vs. Backplate/Wing

[MichaelMc]

Before we reignite a six year old thread, with likely elements of mine is better than yours, in proposing that DMs might make some initial judgements based on gear, my descriptions of diver A and B did not mention jacket or BP/W, just common vs more rare and sparkling new vs well used and adjusted to diver.

 

[CT-Rich]

Before we reignite a six year old thread, with likely elements of mine is better than yours, in describing diver A and B and possible initial DM judgements, my descriptions did not include jacket or BP/W, just common vs more rare and sparkling new vs well used and adjusted to diver.

Too late.... climb in, the mud is fine....

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Diver A: Shiny very popular BC, wetsuit, and regulator that all sparkle and still smell of fresh neoprene, no wear marks.
Diver B: Well used, less off the rack, BC, that divers usually need to research to find out about. Whose straps and belt seem formed in curves that look like they fit that diver perfectly.

So no initial judgements by the DM as to who might be more trusted in the water?

I think most DM’s that have to manage hoards of divers everyday view divers as cattle regardless of what they have on. They may even like the divers with all new shiny expensive gear better because it probably means a better tip. The divers with old f’ed up and faded out gear are viewed as just too cheap to upgrade their stuff and broke so not good tippers.
Other than that I think the dive masters could care less, as long as nobody’s an idiot and nobody dies.

 

[TMHeimer]

I think most DM’s that have to manage hoards of divers everyday view divers as cattle regardless of what they have on. They may even like the divers with all new shiny expensive gear better because it probably means a better tip. The divers with old f’ed up and faded out gear are viewed as just too cheap to upgrade their stuff and broke so not good tippers.
Other than that I think the dive masters could care less, as long as nobody’s an idiot and nobody dies.

Exactly--that's the way I was. Too cheap (but avg. tipper) and about the idiot/dying thing.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I'm pretty sure that if you show up with a jacket these days the DMs put you in the noob category until you prove otherwise.

Step away from the Kool aid!

I dive both. The equipment does not maketh the diver.

I can hold trim and buoyancy just as accurately in a Jacket as I can a wing. A recent example when teaching was I controlled (my fingers resting on each divers shoulders) 2 divers coming up from 10m (30') I controlled the ascent rate, and the stop just by breathing (as my hands were tied up, all the time remaining horizontal and carrying 10lbs of excess lead.

I never judge people by their equipment, just by their attitude, the way they assemble their gear, buddy check and actually dive

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Wow, I am skipping a lot of posts... like the first 23 pages of them. About page 3 you guys hit the “you’re gonna die” divide and it has been sliding down hill ever since. I wear a SP nighthawk andlike it very much. I had an Oceanic jacket before that and one of the EARLY Seatec jackets before that.

You sure you are not posting from beyond the grave?

I kid, I kid.

 

[g1138]

Diver A: Shiny very popular BC, wetsuit, and regulator that all sparkle and still smell of fresh neoprene, no wear marks.
Diver B: Well used, less off the rack, BC, that divers usually need to research to find out about. Whose straps and belt seem formed in curves that look like they fit that diver perfectly.

So no initial judgements by the DM as to who might be more trusted in the water?

Dive C: Straddles an imaginary horse on the deck of the dive boat. Reaches far back between his crotch and pulls a beaver tail high up on his belly; velcros it in place.
Brand new SeaTec Sunfish BC that smells of dreams and fresh listerine. Paired with a dingy plastic backpack that looks like it was salvaged off an 80's Scubapro STAB.
Fins on; waddles sideways to the platform while giving an extended wink and finger guns to the divers still gearing up on the opposing bench.

No initial judgements from the DM what.....so....ever. Just bewilderment.

 

[uncfnp]

As to the BPW vs Jacket, for me initially it was simply a matter of comfort. Before I found SB or knew the names or controversy about the options I simply felt more comfortable with a travel back inflate. In fact I bought it while still in open water class. I hated the confinement of the jacket from the very start. Then as I progressed it also became a matter of fit and function as I moved toward a true metal backplate and wing.

I think most DM’s that have to manage hoards of divers everyday view divers as cattle regardless of what they have on. They may even like the divers with all new shiny expensive gear better because it probably means a better tip. The divers with old f’ed up and faded out gear are viewed as just too cheap to upgrade their stuff and broke so not good tippers.
Other than that I think the dive masters could care less, as long as nobody’s an idiot and nobody dies.

I am sure I am bias but I think DM’s really do enjoy diving when they have a known group of competent divers regardless of the gear. No need to herd and they can actually relax and enjoy the dive themselves.

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

Problem with the BP/W is that the diver never EVER feels their BC inflating.
With a back inflate you sorta feel the inflate, right before the BC auto purges, with a jacket you feel the inflate immediately.

New divers will not always be able to adapt to this lack of feel easily.
A BP/W places more emphasis on technique, ability, buoyancy, and trim characteristics that just aren't present in a typical new diver.

Setting one up and using one effectively is like rocket science to someone who's never even seen one. And before the BP/W users jump down my throat, just think about it.
When you were certified did you ever think of things like tying down your danglies with bungee or inner tires? No.
Did your basic instructor teach you the proper way to clip something onto your shoulder D-ring? No
etc etc

Without any experienced BP/W diver as a mentor, a BP/W for a new diver is a horrible choice IMO.

Having said that however, using one is not hard if you have someone showing you the ropes.

You are just wrong.

I am the new diver, i set upp my bp/w system in about 15 minuters, witout anyone showing me.

The problem with inflation is just a fantasy, It just work. I feel much more balanced than what i did in the jacket.

I have not had any mentor telling me how to set it up, it is just so intiutive.

I have my 2 small pockets to put camera and stuff in, i can clip off things to my D-rings, what more do I need?

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

OK, as a new diver (5 whole dives), and a vacation diver (2 weeks a year), the whole BP/wing thing is confusing. I have been lurking here for some time, and checked out the manufactueres websites and I still have no idea how to set up a BP/Wing. Most of the answeres here are that they are great. But online they look like a pile of straps conected to some obscure paraphenalia. I hear you tend to float face down (somewhat), then that that is a myth that you have to trim your setup correctly and learn to swim with one, but no idea HOW to do that.

I would like to get some more constructive info on the BP/Wing. (Yes I have searched) but I definately see why a newbie (like me) would go for a jacket style off the boat.

Cheers
jaycat

From one newbie to another.

I did my first 2 weeks, 17 dives in a jacket, then i needed to buy stuff and went for a BP/W.

The setup is kindof intiutive, you need to know what way to put in the straps buy it is easy.

The surfade thing is not any real problem, you just float on your back, putting all the bladder in the water, realy not any problem. You just do it.