narrow my options

[lermontov]

so I need help please from ccr divers on narrowing my purchase options-

My primary interest is wreck diving - im about to do a cavern course for future cave diving options so side mount ccr is a sensible option- however the advice from sales people is its hard to go from OC to a sidemount ccr without having a back mount first- not sure if this a sales pitch or genuine. The SF2 has a back mount option which can convert to side mount - not sure if theres any others.

secondly im keen to do some deep dives (70m+) on my overseas trips ( Solomon's- Truuk- Vanuatu) and need the CCR to be suitable for that so weight and deep diving suitability is important- is that asking too much?

Is side mount ccr with extra bottles a handful for the deep dives to is my best option to go back mount for this ie different tools for different diving

 

[tbone1004]

@lermontov what are your buddies diving? That isn't an inconsequential decision.

Who's your cavern course with? If you haven't committed to it yet, contact Ted McCoy. He's an SF2 instructor, cave instructor, and for you, has a LOT of deep wreck experience in the mid-Atlantic so will be best suited to help you make your decision.

If you want double duty CCR's, the only real contenders IMO are the Liberty and the SF2. Two completely different beasts. My buddies have committed to the Liberty in sidemount for cave diving and one of them is using it off the coast of CA. I'll be buying one at the end of the summer when I get back into cave diving *too damn hot for me right now*. The SF2 was obviously a contender, but we went away from it for various reasons. The SF2 is really clean though since there are no counterlungs so it is basically like diving a double hose regulator which is nice for the ocean.

 

[lermontov]

@lermontov what are your buddies diving? That isn't an inconsequential decision.

Who's your cavern course with? If you haven't committed to it yet, contact Ted McCoy. He's an SF2 instructor, cave instructor, and for you, has a LOT of deep wreck experience in the mid-Atlantic so will be best suited to help you make your decision.

If you want double duty CCR's, the only real contenders IMO are the Liberty and the SF2. Two completely different beasts. My buddies have committed to the Liberty in sidemount for cave diving and one of them is using it off the coast of CA. I'll be buying one at the end of the summer when I get back into cave diving *too damn hot for me right now*. The SF2 was obviously a contender, but we went away from it for various reasons. The SF2 is really clean though since there are no counterlungs so it is basically like diving a double hose regulator which is nice for the ocean.

thanks 3 of my buddies dive mostly JJ -with a couple that dive Poseidon and inspo the rest are OC sidemount but I know that there are some penetration dives the ccr cant get through easily ( im on OC sidemount) so I dont want to go back wards in that regard.
in regard to double duty of the SF2 are you talking about the adapter kit to convert from back mount to side mount?

Im doing TDI cavern in Mt Gambier Australia the instructor is certified fro SF2 and Erevo (the erevo while not Side mount is quite a low profile ) so im doing a try dive while im attending the course so hopefully will give me more info to work with

another consideration is ongoing training - where I live is a very small ccr market and the cost of travel to get training is a consideration

 

[Patoux01]

I've been lurking on ccr for a long time (but it keeps getting canceled because I want a roughly stable situation before I commit to it), so I don't have much experience with it, just a lot of reading, but you could have a look at the kiss sidekick. There was an instructor in Southern Australia a few years back, no idea if he's still there. I was also told there's no need for a backmount unit first, it wouldn't make sense to me if one required that, much like I don't understand why people see a need to teach divers in backmount before they can move on to sidemount.

 

[rjack321]

I've been lurking on ccr for a long time (but it keeps getting canceled because I want a roughly stable situation before I commit to it), so I don't have much experience with it, just a lot of reading, but you could have a look at the kiss sidekick. There was an instructor in Southern Australia a few years back, no idea if he's still there. I was also told there's no need for a backmount unit first, it wouldn't make sense to me if one required that, much like I don't understand why people see a need to teach divers in backmount before they can move on to sidemount.

Because a sidemount CCR is a highly specialized piece of kit that does some things great - and other things horribly. If you want to dive small caves but aren't especially far from the entrance, a SM CCR is ideal.

Deep caves can be hit or miss, but especially for open water dives at significant depths (eg 100m), a sidemount CCR is awful - there is no place to put the bailout. For a dive like that, you're looking at least 3 and probably 4 BO cylinders (plus suit gas). A backmounted CCR is way more versatile and there are actually enough places to stash those BOs, although once you get past 2x al80s its not as easy as it sounds.

Get the right tool for the job. Someone who is planning deep wreck trips but isn't even cavern certified yet should probably be in a backmount CCR. Only people who don't know what they are talking about say "But I don't want to buy twice". The reality is that you need more than one unit (and the backmount vs sidemount SF2 is for all practical purposes two units since the conversion is quite elaborate) to do different dives well (or even at all).

 

[Schwob]

... at significant depths (eg 100m), a sidemount CCR is awful - there is no place to put the bailout. For a dive like that, you're looking at least 3 and probably 4 BO cylinders (plus suit gas). A backmounted CCR is way more versatile and there are actually enough places to stash those BOs, although once you get past 2x al80s its not as easy as it sounds.
...

Miles and miles away from having to worry about that (not on an RB, not even tek yet, just wrapping my head around things), but that to me is a very simple, but comprehensible and convincing argument nevertheless.... maybe even with "just" 2 BOs.

 

[JohnnyC]

What rjack said.

 

[lv2dive]

I generally agree with Richard and in fact I strongly agree with most of the points he made in this post.

Where I differ in opinion is related to his point regarding the SF2 conversion - I don't think it is that elaborate. I think the SF2 is a great choice (period, but especially...) for someone new to CCR starting out with a backmount unit who thinks that in the future, they might be interested in unit that can easily be converted to SM. The SF2 conversion kit provides the ability to go back and forth from BM to SM, all with OEM parts. Is it the smallest profile SM unit? Nope. But the bellows counterlungs are protected which is a benefit.

PS - For the OP, it sounds to me (too) like the best option for the dives you are doing is a BM option. Don't forget, you can still dive your bailout in a SM configuration. That's a learning curve you are ahead of the game on, compared to other new CCR divers who dove backmount exclusively prior to moving to CCRs.

Because a sidemount CCR is a highly specialized piece of kit that does some things great - and other things horribly. If you want to dive small caves but aren't especially far from the entrance, a SM CCR is ideal.

Deep caves can be hit or miss, but especially for open water dives at significant depths (eg 100m), a sidemount CCR is awful - there is no place to put the bailout. For a dive like that, you're looking at least 3 and probably 4 BO cylinders (plus suit gas). A backmounted CCR is way more versatile and there are actually enough places to stash those BOs, although once you get past 2x al80s its not as easy as it sounds.

Get the right tool for the job. Someone who is planning deep wreck trips but isn't even cavern certified yet should probably be in a backmount CCR. Only people who don't know what they are talking about say "But I don't want to buy twice". The reality is that you need more than one unit (and the backmount vs sidemount SF2 is for all practical purposes two units since the conversion is quite elaborate) to do different dives well (or even at all).

 

[tomfcrist]

I know some people working on a SM optima...when that will come to fruition I don’t know.

SF2 is a wonderful kit from what I’ve seen...try dive all the ones you are interested in. Settle on what you feel is best for you.

 

[lv2dive]

I agree with @tomfcrist - the best thing you can do is try the options you are considering. I'm certified on three units, and they are all very good units - one could not go wrong with any of them.

The current unit I own is actually the third CCR I've owned... and I'm ok with that. The two primary reasons I ended up with an SF2:
Simplicity: setup/breakdown time was half of the other two units I owned.
Streamlined: being somewhat short (5'5") I don't have a ton of real estate for counterlungs (front or back mounted) - I love the bellows CL on the SF2. Overall, it's very clean/streamlined.
Support: i had friends who dove the unit, including the instructor who certified me on my original CCR. Questions to consider include: Can you get training locally? Parts or service? (Of course you can order most parts) What about help with troubleshooting issues? Richard asked what your friends dive... having buddies (or mentors) who dive the unit can make a huge difference in working through challenges as they come up.

Once you have done a try-dive or two, you will start to have an idea of what is important to you. A year or two from now, what's important to you may have changed and another unit may be a better fit. *Expect this going in for best results!* There is no one perfect rebreather - there are options and advantages and disadvantages. The SF2 sure comes pretty close to perfect for me, though!