Any thoughts on why there isn’t a bounty on lionfish

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ah, so we are effectively driving them off the shallow reefs all along the coast of Florida. You're contradicting yourself.

No I am not ... stop diving that site for a month and tell us what happens?

You're deluding yourself again ... lionfish are like cockroaches, turn on the light and you won't see any ... but that doesn't mean they're not there ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CuzzA]

No I am not ... stop diving that site for a month and tell us what happens?

You're deluding yourself again ... lionfish are like cockroaches, turn on the light and you won't see any ... but that doesn't mean they're not there ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, where I live hardly anyone has been diving all winter, unless you're commercial. The Gulf has been kicked up and cold. I just now started diving the past two weekends. Haven't seen one yet. I'm giving you my personal experience from the past few years.

Deluded might be better defined by someone making claims about an environment underwater, yet they live completely on the other side of the country and haven't been here in years because they claim Florida is a shiithole.

But hey, I guess you know more than those idiot FWC guys and other regulators around the Gulf, Atlantic and Caribbean who are continuously offering bounties, tournaments, commercial incentives, etc. Don't those dummies know better? It's a waste of time, ineffective.

 

[kmarks]

... and after we're done testing it on lionfish, develop a similar strategy for humans ... it would solve a lot more than the lionfish problem ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

CRISPR-Cas9 doesn't work quickly enough to do that. Humans reproduce very slowly; it takes us a minimum of 12-15 years to go from one generation to the next, and we only typically produce one offspring per mating pair per year. If you introduced a similar situation to humans, we might be driven out of existence in about 5-10,000 years, but we'll get there sooner than that on our own. The bigger concern with CRISPR-Cas9 in humans is more "Attack of the Clones" when some unscrupulous nation (and I'm not ruling out the US, we're probably the most likely to end up doing this) decides to make supersoldiers who are all engineered to be 8 feet tall and able to carry 400 lbs while running and grow to adulthood in 5 years.

 

[Saniflush]

Man has a very bad history when we try to "help" with this kind of thing. My example earlier is the nutria in the SE. Snakes in HI would be another.

Kudzu in the South would be another

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, where I live hardly anyone has been diving all winter, unless you're commercial. The Gulf has been kicked up and cold. I just now started diving the past two weekends. Haven't seen one yet. I'm giving you my personal experience from the past few years.

Deluded might be better defined by someone making claims about an environment underwater, yet they live completely on the other side of the country and haven't been here in years because they claim Florida is a shiithole.

But hey, I guess you know more than those idiot FWC guys and other regulators around the Gulf, Atlantic and Caribbean who are continuously offering bounties, tournaments, commercial incentives, etc. Don't those dummies know better? It's a waste of time, ineffective.

Uh, uh, uh ... bad form. What's said in The Pub stays in The Pub, and you've been told repeatedly to take none of it seriously. And yet here you are, in a protected forum, using very Pub-like tactics.

But I reject your Appeal to Authority on the basis that it doesn't make any sense. You can argue all you like, but if you think you and your merry band of spearfishers are ridding the Caribbean of lionfish you are badly mistaken. Yes, I believe you when you claim you managed to clean them out of your local mudhole ... but that's just a tiny part of the sea, and the lionfish have quite a bit more range than you do.

And while you killed maybe a few dozen, the lionfish were adding millions more babies to your local waters ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CuzzA]

Uh, uh, uh ... bad form. What's said in The Pub stays in The Pub, and you've been told repeatedly to take none of it seriously. And yet here you are, in a protected forum, using very Pub-like tactics.

But I reject your Appeal to Authority on the basis that it doesn't make any sense. You can argue all you like, but if you think you and your merry band of spearfishers are ridding the Caribbean of lionfish you are badly mistaken. Yes, I believe you when you claim you managed to clean them out of your local mudhole ... but that's just a tiny part of the sea, and the lionfish have quite a bit more range than you do.

And while you killed maybe a few dozen, the lionfish were adding millions more babies to your local waters ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Right, calling me "deluded" is not Pub carryover? If you're gonna dish it out you better be able to take it.

I never said rid the Caribbean of them. I said, at recreational depths, lionfish are being put in check by divers. That is a good thing and should be promoted. I've shared where the State of Florida continues to promote it, which is the topic of this thread.

Yet you think that if you don't kill every last one then those efforts are a waste of time. I'm telling you that is nonsense.

BTW, just because a lionfish can produce a lot of offspring does not translate into that offspring making it to an adult. The vast majority are likely consumed before developing, just like any other species.

If the goal is to try and protect our reefs, then divers are the solution until the predators catch up. And like I said, we have reports of them being found in the bellies of Red Grouper and Amberjacks. It's a matter of time before an equilibrium is found.

In the meantime, though not welcomed, my glass half full thought is we have a new resource here that we can and should take full advantage of.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Right, calling me "deluded" is not Pub carryover? If you're gonna dish it out you better be able to take it.

I didn't call you deluded ... I said if you believe you're successfully eradicating the lionfish via spearfishing, you're deluding yourself. That is, you know, an idiom that is commonly used in polite company. I apologize if it offended you ... but given our history I believe it's because you're looking to be offended.

Please don't take our Pub disagreements out of The Pub ... particularly and bring them to this forum.

I never said rid the Caribbean of them. I said, at recreational depths, lionfish are being put in check by divers. That is a good thing and should be promoted. I've shared where the State of Florida continues to promote it, which is the topic of this thread.

But, unless I'm mistaken, the topic of this conversation was how to control their population in the Caribbean. Spearfishing ain't gonna get that job done. While you're out there killing a dozen of them, multiple females are replacing those you killed with roughly a hundred thousand offspring, each, about every six weeks or so.

Yet you think that if you don't kill every last one then those efforts are a waste of time. I'm telling you that is nonsense.

I never said those efforts are a waste of time ... I said that it's ineffective at population control. The numbers simply don't add up. Now if you can convince a couple million divers to go join you, then perhaps you can make a dent.

BTW, just because a lionfish can produce a lot of offspring does not translate into that offspring making it to an adult. The vast majority are likely consumed before developing, just like any other species.

This is true ... and eventually it will happen. That's just how the world works ... it adapts to changes. But you and I won't live long enough to see that happen. Other species are just now beginning to recognize this fish as a potential food source. And while finding a predator to eat the fry will be more effective than spearfishing, it will take one or more predators eating the eggs to effect a balance that won't overwhelm the area with lionfish. Achieving a natural balance could take a century or more ... even after the natives begin to identify the lionfish as a potential food source.

If the goal is to try and protect our reefs, then divers are the solution until the predators catch up. And like I said, we have reports of them being found in the bellies of Red Grouper and Amberjacks. It's a matter of time before an equilibrium is found.

Once again, how much overall reef do divers visit? Somehow I just have a hard time believing that you and your spearfishing friends visit every single reef surrounding the entire state of Florida. More normally, divers restrict their activities to known areas within a relatively small percentage of the whole coastline.

In the meantime, though not welcomed, my glass half full thought is we have a new resource here that we can and should take full advantage of.

I not only welcome your optimism, I appreciate it ... however, optimism won't solve this problem and your numbers simply don't add up.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And FWIW I'll toss out my theory ... if you want to control the lionfish population, just convince the Chinese they're an aphrodisiac ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CuzzA]

I didn't call you deluded ... I said if you believe you're successfully eradicating the lionfish via spearfishing, you're deluding yourself. That is, you know, an idiom that is commonly used in polite company. I apologize if it offended you ... but given our history I believe it's because you're looking to be offended.

Please don't take our Pub disagreements out of The Pub ... particularly and bring them to this forum.

Yeah, well the way you worded that was most certainly taken from Allison's post. So it's a two way street. I'm happy to keep that rhetoric out of here.

Once again, how much overall reef do divers visit? Somehow I just have a hard time believing that you and your spearfishing friends visit every single reef surrounding the entire state of Florida. More normally, divers restrict their activities to known areas within a relatively small percentage of the whole coastline.

Thousands, maybe tens of thousands of divers are hunting both commercially and recreationally all along the coast of Florida. Me and my friends are not the only guys that hunt them. Secret spots are rare, the tech is too good to leave ground uncovered.

I'm telling you the reports are lionfish numbers are down significantly on near shore reefs in the past few years. Perhaps a poll is in order to win this debate.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Yeah, well the way you worded that was most certainly taken from Allison's post. So it's a two way street. I'm happy to keep that rhetoric out of here.

There is no one named Allison participating in this conversation. You are conflating two completely different conversations created in two completely different forums operating under completely different rules.

Thousands, maybe tens of thousands of divers are hunting both commercially and recreationally all along the coast of Florida. Me and my friends are not the only guys that hunt them. Secret spots are rare, the tech is too good to leave ground uncovered.

I'm telling you the reports are lionfish numbers are down significantly on near shore reefs in the past few years. Perhaps a poll is in order to win this debate.

There is no debate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)